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Front Hoof troubles

8K views 74 replies 12 participants last post by  Hondo 
#1 ·
I have struggled with my geldings feet for some time now. If he stepped on a rock he would go lame. He had very thin soles so one farrier suggested I try front shoes temporarily. That farrier can't service my area anymore so I had someone come out on the 1st of this month to trim and remove the shoes since we had some improvement in his soles (this farrier did leave his toe a little too long imo).

When he was barefoot he would usually get small cracks in his front feet, but I have never had a chunk like this come out before down to the whiteline. He is on legends carb care performance 6 lbs, 3 large flakes of T/A daily and 15 hour turnout on good quality grass. He is in very good condition, but I just can't figure out what to do about his feet? He is only 4 so I would rather not put shoes but I will again if that is whats best.

I have a highly recommended farrier coming out on sunday to evaluate his feet, so until then, has anyone experienced problems like this? If so what did you do?
 

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#6 ·
I did not know what WLD/Seedy Toe was until around 7 months ago. All grown out and tight now. Got careless toward the end and had a relapse. Doctoring and treating daily. Hondo's was not nearly as advanced as yours.

You'll have to knuckle down, buckle down and just do it. Hard at first but gets routine after a while.

Here's my learning experience. http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/crack-hoof-hole-laminae-623369/
 
#7 ·
Looking at those feet again, almost looks like he could be laminitic. You can just see those growth rings.
Long toes, most likely compromised white line, "thin soles), plus looking at the length of the hoof capsule, has me suspecting distal decent, which of course, results in less sole between the ground and the coffin bone
 
#8 ·
He has long, flared feet. Yes, expect cracks & chips. Needs some good trimming. With long feet like that but thin soles, id suspect something like low grade laminitis possible. Need full compliment of pics. <br />
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Wouldnt put shoes on a 4yo, or on those feet - would want to get them healthy first at least. Did you shoe with pads, considering thin soles the prob? You could use hoof boots for riding though. Whats his environment, management & work? Is he on any supps for nutrition?<br />
<font size="1"><i>Posted via Mobile Device</i></font>

Just saw smilie's post - agree.
 
#9 ·
Sorry I haven't replied sooner, I have been a little busy with finals coming up. I forgot to bring my phone with me so I didn't get barefoot pics. I ended up putting the shoes back on with side clips. I am at a big barn with a variety of farriers to choose from and they all suggested front shoes. I'm in florida, it gets pretty wet now in spring/summer so no pads.

Since he is only 4, he gets lightly ridden about 3 days a week. Most of the damage happens when he is out in the pasture running around with his buddy. I plan on showing so hoof boots wouldn't work.

I'm going again today so I will definitely remember to get pics. For now heres a pic of him undersaddle
 

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#13 ·
If you're planning on having this horse get/stay sound long term, especially if you are going to shoe him, make sure it's done WELL for starters. That isn't a good eg. Appears heels are high. Bars overgrown, shoes too big, set to his flared feet. Almost any shoeing job is going to be a compromise tho, until they can grow healthy. I guess the choice is getting feet 'pretty' to show him soon(tho I think you can show in boots, just not in dressage), or having him grow healthy feet & getting sound.

Again, need good hoof pics if you want a proper critique. See link in signature below to know what's needed. Hows his nutrition? What surfaces does he work on? If only on soft stuff like that he won't need shoes. If he's tender on soft footing, I'd be thinking there are serious issues going on, would be way more inclined to avoid shoeing until it was sorted.
 
#14 ·
Just thought I would clarify, I am not shoeing so that I can show him sooner. He's not even fully broke at w/t/c. My goal is to get to the next season at HITS, but I am in no rush. From a collaboration of my trainer, vet and new farrier I came to the conclusion that shoes would be the best option right now. You can't even use bell boots in hunt seat, so I'm not sure if I could do hoof boots. I will speak to the farrier about what you have said to see if there is a reasoning to the way he did the set. I don't want to jump to any conclusions with out hearing what he has to say.

He is worked on sand/clay and we have an arena with fleet footing. When he was barefoot the only trouble I had was out on the trails, he would be very tender in the rocky areas. Also if there were rocks out in the pasture. If he stepped on a rock he would go lame. (I have his current diet on the first post)

Just curious, if you had a horse that lost a chunk of hoof like this one, what would you do? Before I had the farrier out I was thinking of doing a hoof boot while it healed, but we are beginning to get a lot of rain this year so it would get wet a good majority of the time
 
#22 ·
From a collaboration of my trainer, vet and new farrier I came to the conclusion that shoes would be the best option right now.
And I absolutely, positively would not want or expect you to take my word for it blindly. You have to do your own homework and make the most informed decisions you can... and stay open minded. But that also means not taking your vet's & farrier's word blindly either.

Unfortunately, there are many, many farriers out there that don't have a good understanding of hoof balance & function, and vets, understandably, as they have to learn SO much about so much, unless specialised in hoofcare, often know less than farriers about those specifics. There is a LOT of pretty recent research that has been done that has radically changed the understanding about hoof function, so even formally educated professionals may not be up to date. So not at all judging them on it, but just do your own homework... On that note, the forum link in my signature is one good place to start.

I will speak to the farrier about what you have said to see if there is a reasoning to the way he did the set.
I imagine it is because he believes hooves should be peripherally loaded, that he doesn't understand the disconnection that he's seeing, or what he can do about it &/or that to fix a conventional rim on hooves, you need some hoof wall to nail to, so it must be a compromise with feet like that even with the best knowledge.

He is worked on sand/clay and we have an arena with fleet footing. When he was barefoot the only trouble I had was out on the trails, he would be very tender in the rocky areas.
Oh, it sounded like it was a general prob, that he was tender in the pasture & needed shoes for his arena work. Yes, as with people who never go barefoot on rough surfaces, gravel can be hard on bare feet if they're not 'well calloused'. In addition, at 4yo, he will only be beginning to develop(assuming environment/management allows it at all) the caudal foot strength he needs to have strong, sound feet.

If he only needs protection out on the trail, then there's no worry about showing, as you can just leave him barefoot the rest of the time when you're not on gravel. But another (far better, for function/health) option that is definitely allowed in showing is Easyshoes or Eponas or the likes.

Just curious, if you had a horse that lost a chunk of hoof like this one, what would you do? Before I had the farrier out I was thinking of doing a hoof boot while it healed,
The 'chunk' he lost is in the separated wall. It is a 'symptom' of the problem, not a problem of itself. I wouldn't worry about the chunk specifically - and it's not going to 'heal' any more than a broken fingernail will. I would have been concerned & working on improving his feet long before the chunk happened. I would be reassessing diet, nutrition(I'll look at earlier post on that, must have missed), and environment/management, and I'd be trimming him in such a way as to reduce the mechanical stress on his walls and facilitate them to start growing down well attached. And if there is any infection present in the white line(there very often is, but it can't be seen with shoes on), I'd be cutting it out if/as necessary and treating it topically. Especially if you're expecting wet weather, I wouldn't want anything fixed to the base of his feet & hindering treatment/drying out of infection. I'd also try to provide somewhere he can be at least part time, that is dry & allows his hooves to dry out.
 
#15 ·
I see the same as Loosie, he needs a shorter toe, bars trimmed down, heels brought back and remove the shoes so his hooves will open up. Once he stops throwing up bars and balances out with proper trims, he will be sound and you can use him harder and shoe him. Until then, all those shoes are doing is locking in the problems.
 
#16 · (Edited)
What would I do if my horse's feet started losing chunks?

That usually means walls are too long, toe is too long. Too much pressure causes cracking... or there is WLD.

I see a lot of flaring (when you look at a foot head on: there should be a straight line from the top of their coronet band, to the bottom of their hoof aka where it meets the ground) There should not be a deviance of angle from the hoof growing near the coronet band, to the toe.

He has too much hoof wall, too long of a toe. Those bars are so crushed and overlaid because they were too long and are causing contracted heels which is the surface that should be as far back as possible to distribute weight of horse... the closer to the toe the heels are, the more pressure the quarters (the rounded sides of the hoof viewed from the bottom) and the toe gets... the more cracked a hoof becomes.

Slapping a shoe on a hoof does not fix any of that, it just allows it to get even longer, and even more pressured on the front vs. shared pressure on front and back.

The fact that almost all the farriers so far you have met suggest shoes, but aren't addressing the actual issues of the foot in the first place... worries me.
 
#17 ·
There are a lot of show barns around me, so a majority of farriers in the area do shoes. I still haven't found one that specializes in working with the bare foot. I will revisit going barefoot again if that is the best option. I just need to figure out the best way to help him transition with out loosing chunks of hoof. Can hoof boots be left on for extended periods of time during turnout? Thats where he puts the most stress on his feet
 
#19 ·
If the horse is trimmed to his natural balance, and left to his own devices on pasture until he is done throwing up bars and widens out, there won't be much, if any chunks lost. This is assuming your horse doesn't have any other internal hoof issues, such as seedy toe, whiteline disease, etc.
 
#18 ·
A decent farrier knows how to shoe, trim and balance and keep a horse sound. A farrier I am working with, rehabs horses without shoes to get them balanced first. Then if you have demanding riding where shoes are required, she puts shoes on them.
 
#20 ·
It isn't the shoes that bother me (because they have their place) it's the fact that there are glaring issues on the hoof itself that needed to be addressed but instead were not and a shoe was put on anyway making the issues present worse. Ignoring problems does not make them go away!

If barefoot isn't your horse's thing, fine. But... at least trim the hoof correctly before putting the shoe on.
 
#21 ·
I did forget to mention that we were dealing with a seedy toe for a while. In january he went dead lame on his left hoof, (it was an abscess) I wrapped the hoof and by the next morning when the vet came out it had blown through his heel. When he had his next trim a couple of days later the farrier discovered another abscess in his sole which I'm guessing was from having the seedy toe.
 
#24 ·
Yeah, abscesses on the outer sole can be from seedy toe... & seedy toe is generally a problem with 'stretched' feet like that. If there was no disconnection/compromise, the bugs don't get in. He will be susceptible to it as long as his feet are flared. Was the seedy cut out & treated effectively? Heel abscesses are often about hoof function issues.

Re diet, you know that so called 'carb care' is 20% NSC? That's pretty high. Also has added potassium & not much magnesium, which are other potential factors which may effect hooves if the rest isn't balanced accordingly. How come if he's in good condition & light work, and good hay/pasture, he needs a high fat extra feed too? I'd consider just ensuring he has an appropriate ration balancer or such to balance his forage.
 
#25 ·
Agree very much with the others. I had vets and farriers that could not fix my horse's split hoof and it wasn't until I learned about barefoot trimming and stopped leaving the hoof walls too long, and started doing a beveled edge that my hoof grew out nicely.

Although you have "experts" looking at your hooves, they are unbalanced and long. As others have said, putting a shoe on and then going for 8 weeks only compounds the problem. One good thing if you don't put shoes on is that you can trim when the hoof gets too long, and that time frame varies just as the hoof growth does throughout the year.

Your diet is probably fine as long as your horse does not have insulin resistance or other issues that make him sensitive to the sugar levels in grass. It can help your hoof health quite a bit if you add a supplement that adds biotin, copper, and zinc. Horseshoer's Secret is the one I use.
 
#26 ·
Every farrier that I have had out has not shown any concern about his feet so it has been a struggle. I really feel guilty now after seeing all of this. I honestly didn't know how serious it could get.

He was originally on triple crown. When I switched to legends he really bloomed so I have just stuck with it. They do make a ration balancer though. I definitely would much rather have more hay in front of him than extra grain. Any input on good ration balancers? (I have access to all southern states feeds, seminole, purina, & nutrena)
And he is stalled during the day, then turned out in the afternoon until next morning.

Now, he is due in 4 weeks for his next trim/re-set. Should I just wait until then or would it be a good idea to pull the shoes now?
 
#27 ·
Pull them, then educate yourself and go on a hunt for a farrier who knows how to balance a horse. I learned all this because my adult daughter's expensive show horse was lame, lots of farriers, lots of vet clinics, etc. Finally I had a look at the horse, I could tell, like your horse, toe too long, stretched sole, overgrown bars, wonky heels, was making him lame. Lots of incompetent farriers around, but I found one 350 miles away and we hauled the horse to her. Three months, she had him sound and she taught me to trim him to keep him that way. She comes up here every so often to check on my work.
 
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#28 ·
1. DO NOT FEEL GUILTY! Youve been doing the best you kno how havent you? & how were you to kno you didnt kno better if no one told you?? So dont feel bad, feel good that youve kept on asking & trying to learn better for him.

2. Id pull the shoes & get him well trimmed asap.

3. Id also endeavor to get him on 24/7 turnout asap.

4. Feedxl.com is one good resource for helping u balance nutrition, inc giving options for available products appropriate for your horse.
 
#29 ·
It's not easy to find farriers around me. Most don't advertise and you pretty much have to go off of recommendations.
I did find this person, she advertises as a hoof trimmer, not a farrier though.
https://www.facebook.com/wctrims/timeline?ref=page_internal

He was on 24/7 turnout in a 50 acre pasture for the first few years of his life. Right now he is out for 15 hours, which is pretty long for my area. Most people only turnout for 4-6 hours. On the days I go out for a ride I hand graze after so he's really only in the stall for about 6 hours. I really try to reduce his time in and make sure he has hay in front of him. We go through at least 10 bales a month

(I was searching through some old threads and I found some pics from last year when he was barefoot)
 

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#30 ·
That barefoot hoof looks healthier in terms of heels being back, and MOST of the white line being tight. I hope you can see the stretched White Line on the right side of the photo, and how there is a rather large flare/distortion there.

The trimmer you referenced seems more knowledgeable on trimming a hoof but has limited experience but that isn't necessarily bad.

If I were you, I'd have her consult on your horse's feet once the shoes are pulled.
 
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