HELP Expert advice - navicular cysts, osteophytes RTG X-rays - Page 2
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Keeping and Caring for Horses > Horse Health > Hoof Care

HELP Expert advice - navicular cysts, osteophytes RTG X-rays

This is a discussion on HELP Expert advice - navicular cysts, osteophytes RTG X-rays within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

    Like Tree51Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        11-28-2013, 07:32 AM
      #11
    Foal
    Yes, I see what you mean. I've been doing some research about it since I heard the diagnosis (and prognosis :(). I thought that the farrier knew what he was doing but I can see that it didn't work with my horse (he is THE ONLY horse in the stable that is barefoot). I was recommended by the vets to shoe him (egg bar shoes) but the second vet told me it is a short-time relief and talked about how important it is to find a true professionalist. I contacted a lady who is both a vet and takes care of barehoof horses in a natural way. I've been still waiting for an answer (she asked where I keep the horse and I had to tell her that 120km away from her). She talked about the importance of food, movement and hoof balance. She told me that she would have to visit me more often (every 4-5 weeks) than a typical farrier (8 weeks). I hope she agrees.

    Has anyone tried Tildren ? I am worried because I read about side effects... :( but I will at least try as he is a young horse and MAYBE I can still do something to help him.

    He is not dead lame. He is happy but he doesn't like to trot. I can see that he prefers to canter slowly than to trot fast. I feel sad when I see that he isn't comfortable.
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        11-28-2013, 01:14 PM
      #12
    Weanling
    Frankly given the low angle of the coffin bone in the affected foot I doubt that barefoot is the answer because as long as that exists there will be undue stress in the affected area of the navicular bone and deep flexor tendon attachment. Ailing to reedy the cause will result in fruitless expense and time. However Egg bars are not the best answer either. They cause secondary issues in the long run and do not address the mechanical cause of the navicular changes.
    Instead I would opt for some kind if wedged shoeing package that corrects the bone misalignment ,supports the very back of the frog to help support the coffin joint, and (very important) eases breakover in any direction. You can do all this far better with special shoes than you can barefoot or in boots.

    There are many options, including plastic"clogs", various aluminum full roller motion shoes, and many kinds of rolled edge shoes and wedge pad combinations.

    The osteophytes on the top of the extensor process and the lower pastern bone may also have arisen from compression between the bones in that area due to the mismatched angles and long toes.

    Did the vet do nerve blocks to insure that those bone spurs are not also causing pain?
         
        11-28-2013, 01:16 PM
      #13
    Weanling
    Quote:
    She talked about the importance of food, movement and hoof balance. She told me that she would have to visit me more often (every 4-5 weeks) than a typical farrier (8 weeks).
    You may end up spending a LOT of money for not much results if barefoot. A GOOD even one that likes to use barefoot as much as possible, would recognize that some feet will do better in the right kind of therapeutic shoeing.
    waresbear and m00nisek like this.
         
        11-28-2013, 02:18 PM
      #14
    Foal
    I don't know what to do now. Has anyone got a different opinion?

    Can the angle be corrected with appropiate trim? I want his feet TO WORK for him. I prefer to wait for an effect longer than to use shoes to mask the problem for a short period of time. Do you really think it is something that cannot be changed with good and regular trimming? I thought that I will keep him barefoot and buy boots for him to "teach" him how to move when it doesn't hurt (so that he won't toe-land first).

    * By "teach" I mean observe and monitor the situation.
         
        11-28-2013, 06:55 PM
      #15
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by m00nisek    
    I am a kind of a perfectionist. If I can't do something in a proper way, I don't do it.
    Well that's better than being gung-ho about it & not bothering to learn properly first. But I think being a perfectionist was part of why I started doing this in the first place - the more I learned & saw the... imperfections in the jobs of pro farriers I employed, the more I thought I could do better... or at least couldn't do any worse, even when I was inexperienced at it.

    Desert is right though, that even if you have no desire to do the job yourself, learning the theories, principles & function of hooves will allow you to better understand whether your 'experts' at hand are doing a good job or not too.

    Quote:
    but the second vet told me it is a short-time relief and talked about how important it is to find a true professionalist. I contacted a lady who is both a vet and takes care of barehoof horses in a natural way.
    Sounds like the second vet may have more than a clue and hopefully you're onto a good thing with this lady vet.

    Quote:
    Frankly given the low angle of the coffin bone in the affected foot I doubt that barefoot is the answer
    With any luck, this woman also being a vet, will know how to deal with it effectively(ask her about other nav horses she's rehabbed too), be that bare or otherwise. Be interesting to see hoof pics to go with the rads, as it may be possible to 'correct' the angles adequately with trimming, and it also depends a lot on what environment you can provide - eg. Some nice pea gravel areas would help immensely & should also allow him to be comfortable bare.

    But IME I agree with Patty, that it may be an uphill battle trying to keep him bare *at this particular time*. & BUT I would also be hesitant to use rim shoes in this situation, rocker, wedge or otherwise, and would instead be looking at providing added support & wedging *only under the frog*. So padded boots, Vettec, pads with casting are the first things I'd consider.
    deserthorsewoman and m00nisek like this.
         
        11-28-2013, 08:35 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    Quote:
    But IME I agree with Patty, that it may be an uphill battle trying to keep him bare *at this particular time*.
    agree.
    Quote:
    & BUT I would also be hesitant to use rim shoes in this situation, rocker, wedge or otherwise, and would instead be looking at providing added support & wedging *only under the frog*. So padded boots, Vettec, pads with casting are the first things I'd consider.
    Here is the biggest issues with trying to just load the frog. I have dealt with TONS of horses with navicular bone issues just like this one. They HURT directly in the center of the frog because that is where the Deep digital flexor tendon and distal navicular ligament attach, right at those lesions. So lalthough good in theory to align the coffin joint, lpading primarily the frog on navicular horses can make them really really sore.
    So in order to get the injured sore tissues to 'quiet down' some, wedging and spreading the support over a wider area works a whole lot better. A thick firm wedge pad cast on is not a too bad of an idea, worth a try if there are no decent farriers around who understand the mechanics of this or who are willing to try alternate materials for shoeing . And the barefoot vet can do casting. Like 'lay down and don't walk' sore. I have seen it, tried it, and don't do it anymore.
    I would not do boots because you can not leave them in 247 and taking them off immediately removes the therapeutic action of a wedge. Unless you can bed DEEP all the time the boots are off so the horse can sink his toes down into the bedding. ,
    But at any rate I would NOT leave this foot out of alignment as it is now and there is not enough foot there to work with to raise the angle naturally. And of this gorse has inherently weak digital cushion internally(likely) he may need some man made help forever because just growing taller heels will not be the answer either .
    m00nisek likes this.
         
        11-28-2013, 08:37 PM
      #17
    Weanling
    And a plastic Stewart clog is a excellent alternative shoe for this kind of thing, and it can be cast on by your "barefoot" vet. And easily rasped into a bit of a wedge instead of left level.
    m00nisek likes this.
         
        11-28-2013, 10:48 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
    Frankly given the low angle of the coffin bone in the affected foot I doubt that barefoot is the answer because as long as that exists there will be undue stress in the affected area of the navicular bone and deep flexor tendon attachment. Ailing to reedy the cause will result in fruitless expense and time. However Egg bars are not the best answer either. They cause secondary issues in the long run and do not address the mechanical cause of the navicular changes.
    Instead I would opt for some kind if wedged shoeing package that corrects the bone misalignment ,supports the very back of the frog to help support the coffin joint, and (very important) eases breakover in any direction. You can do all this far better with special shoes than you can barefoot or in boots.

    There are many options, including plastic"clogs", various aluminum full roller motion shoes, and many kinds of rolled edge shoes and wedge pad combinations.

    The osteophytes on the top of the extensor process and the lower pastern bone may also have arisen from compression between the bones in that area due to the mismatched angles and long toes.

    Did the vet do nerve blocks to insure that those bone spurs are not also causing pain?

    I am liking all over the place! Of course, I would prefer keeping my horse barefoot. But if it were my horse, I'd want immediate relief and get some shoes and pads (maybe degree pads temporarily), get a good backed up breakover, and give the horse bute for a few days to get the inflammation down. As Patty says, those osteophytes may have arisen from the compression. To reduce that compression, those heels need to be raised now and the toe shortened and rolled to reduce compression during breakover. Your horse has problems that will only get worse without taking measures, and hopefully have some stability if you take care of it soon. I doubt there are any alternatives.
    m00nisek likes this.
         
        11-28-2013, 11:19 PM
      #19
    Trained
    BTW Patty, navicular cysts... I told OP I didn't know about those as such, but the (little) further I've looked into it, sounds like they're possibly just preliminary to bone remodelling & legions.... so no specific difference in treating to 'navicular' generally??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
    Here is the biggest issues with trying to just load the frog.. . They HURT directly in the center of the frog
    Yep, I agree not to just load the frog - the walls need to help too, especially when heels are so weak. I tend to play around with different types & densities of pads as well and just keep looking for answers if the horse were uncomfortable.

    Quote:
    So in order to get the injured sore tissues to 'quiet down' some, wedging and spreading the support over a wider area works a whole lot better.
    Hmm, admittedly I've only seen wedges used as a 'fixture', put & kept on long term for palliative care of 'incurable' navicular horses. Of course we all know that can relieve the symptoms. But using as a temporary measure while getting other bits working. That's worth a lot more thought I reckon.

    Quote:
    I would not do boots because you can not leave them in 247 and taking them off immediately removes the therapeutic action of a wedge. Unless you can bed DEEP
    Well it's not without issues & not recommended for long term, but you can use boots 24/7. Best to use such as RX Therapies or such, which are designed for paddock/rehab situations, rather than most riding types which are far more likely to cause rubbing & such when left on. I agree fully though, that I'd want to ensure the horse had deep pea gravel or some such to stand in when boots were off.

    Quote:
    But at any rate I would NOT leave this foot out of alignment as it is now and there is not enough foot there to work with to raise the angle naturally. And of this gorse has inherently weak digital cushion internally(likely) he may need some man made help forever because just growing taller heels will not be the answer either .
    Absolutely. And of course palliative measures may be the best or only option for some horses too, but I think it's always worth trying to actually rehab them *so long as it doesn't induce further suffering*.
    m00nisek likes this.
         
        11-29-2013, 07:52 AM
      #20
    Foal
    I might be completely wrong but I will do what I feel... I will keep him barefoot. I've read how hooves work and your opinions about it etc and I think I can always shoe him if it will be necessary.
    That's how he moved before trimming (lunge):

    That's him today (in straight line, 9 days after farrier's visit):
    * he was about to canter by the end of the second's video

    And these are his hooves today:
    Kopyta 29.11.2013 - Zwierzta - Fotosik.pl
    I am worried when I look at the front left frog, however, the right front is far from perfect too. I need to buy boots.
    It won't be possible to provide him with the enviroment where there are gravel areas. Now it is wet but winter is coming and it will be hard.
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    Ringbone, arthritis, navicular--PLEASE give advice!! ZipSilkyMachine Horse Health 37 05-26-2013 09:54 PM
    Palomino Paint... Need expert advice. BB2 Horse Conformation Critique 5 11-01-2012 07:33 PM
    Need your expert advice! :) Long post... Chance59 Barn Maintenance 2 06-23-2012 03:17 PM
    navicular cysts Rachelle Webb Horse Health 10 10-17-2011 11:18 PM
    My poor older girl diagnosed Navicular - ADVICE New_image Horse Health 14 10-12-2009 02:53 AM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:52 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0