Hindgut Microflora of Laminitic, Nonlaminitic Horses Compared - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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Hindgut Microflora of Laminitic, Nonlaminitic Horses Compared

This is an interesting theory

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post #2 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 04:58 AM
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'science' tho curiouser and curiouser! thanx for sharing. poor hhorses, already chronic n subjected to that diet for the sake of s
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post #3 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 04:59 AM
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this sending me barmy, stupix computer!!!
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-13-2013, 03:04 AM
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It has been noted that humans with illnesses have changes in their gut pH and they become more acidic. This can lead to gastric erosion. It doesn't surprise me that horses that have pain issues or illness can have gut changes too. Does the laminitis cause the gut problems or does the gut cause the laminitis? At least in humans, the illness is the cause and the stomach issues follow.
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-13-2013, 04:56 AM
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^^Good points, Gotta. Re your last question, diet & nutritional probs, stress - physical and mental, and drugs/toxicity can all cause both gut damage & laminitis, so in many cases, it may be a 'chicken or egg' thing, although neither of those conditions have been shown to be necessary to the other. But evidence suggests(I think there have been actual scientific studies to show this too, but not positive) that gut damage allows leakage of toxins into the blood, which in turn cause laminitis, and 'hind gut acidosis' due to high-carb feeding is a common cause of both.
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-13-2013, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
Does the laminitis cause the gut problems or does the gut cause the laminitis? At least in humans, the illness is the cause and the stomach issues follow.
From the perspective of dealing with my horse that has hind gut ulcers and Equine Metabolic Syndrome:

None of the above Which is why I read the article with great interest.

The vet feels the stress of having EMS since 2007, plus being 24 at the time the colics started to happen, were what brought on the issue of hind gut ulcers.

<quietly-knocking-on-wood> this horse has never even had a slight laminitic issue

Unlike my 17 yr old who was formally diagnosed as insulin resistant in 2010 and trying to control his insulin is like trying to stop the rain. He did severely founder in March, 2012. At that time there were no signs of ulcers but there is now. I attribute that partly to the long period of time he was on aspirin for the founder.

The corelation in the article makes a lot of sense - it could be my 25 yr old is the exception to the theory and I hope he stays that way - he's the handsome fella in my avatar and (at 16) my heart horse of 22 years-----------

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post #7 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 01:54 AM
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and trying to control his insulin is like trying to stop the rain.
Walkin, look up 'Magnesium For Horses' & Pauline Moore, for some exciting developments & studies on that note!
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 02:15 AM
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and trying to control his insulin is like trying to stop the rain.
Walkin, look up 'Magnesium For Horses' & Pauline Moore, for some exciting developments & studies on that note!
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Walkin, look up 'Magnesium For Horses' & Pauline Moore, for some exciting developments & studies on that note!
Well that makes for some good reading! Still lots to read --- and re-read.

Thank you

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post #10 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 01:49 PM
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It could be possible that the laminitic horses studied here were laminitic because of the endotoxins released by the bacteria that died and therefore were not there when the horse was tested.

High acidity in the gut (which can happen in grain overload or other sudden dietary change) can cause massive die-offs of gut bacteria. These bacteria release endotoxins as they die. These endotoxins are thought to be responsible for laminitis.

This makes giving antacids after an accidental grain overload seem like a good idea.
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