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Hoof angles

This is a discussion on Hoof angles within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Horse undershot heel
  • Jamie jackson hoof angles and heel height

 
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    07-08-2010, 11:06 PM
  #11
Green Broke
Thanks for all the info everyone! The farrier came today to trim her and I forgot he was coming so didn't get a chance to pick his brain!

Well I've had no lameness issues with her so I think she's good for now...I'm still interested in all I can learn about hooves and trims :)
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    07-08-2010, 11:40 PM
  #12
Trained
I should put this in my signature, save repeating myself over & over.... The most important thing we can do for our horses is to educate ourselves the best we can on principles & factors of health & soundness, rather than having to take the word of some 'expert' or other blindly. To this ends, with regard to hooves, hoofrehab.com barefoothorse.com & barehoofcare.com are 3 great sites to start with.

Now, with only those few pics to go on, they don't give too much away, but overall they look quite reasonable, aside from overdue for a trim, especially in the quarters. I would also ensure they are maintained in a strong 'mustang roll' to avoid undue leverage pressure on the walls. They definitely don't need to 'grow out' more - on the contrary, I'd either shorten the trim schedule for your farrier a tad more, or better still, learn to do 'touch up' trims in between his visits, to keep the roll and the quarters under control.

I don't personally get carried away with angles of the rest of the body as they relate to hoof care. It depends on the horse's conformation, how they're standing, etc as to how shoulder angles relate. Eg. The hooves may be 'well trimmed' angle-wise, but heel sensitivity makes a horse stand on it's toes and effects knees & shoulders. Pastern to hoof capsule angles are also transient, depending on how the horse is weighting itself. But this is more relevant as it can show problems. However 'correcting' feet to align with pastern angles is problematic, as it often leads to foundered feet being 'stood up' & such.

It looks *possible* there is some separation there in all feet, tho it's hard to tell & it doesn't look severe, but keeping them maintained as per Marjorie Smith's explanation of a 'white line strategy' trim will help clear that up. Also possible there's slight imbalance there - as someone pointed out, one heel looks a little longer. But I'm by no means sure of that either, just with those pics, and it may be her way of going - the farrier trims her well balanced but she hasn't been using that heel quite as strongly.
     
    07-08-2010, 11:53 PM
  #13
Weanling
^^
I love the barefoothorse website!! GREAT resource!
     
    07-09-2010, 12:28 AM
  #14
Trained
To me she has too much toe...her heels may need a bit more filed off, as well, in order to help her use them properly. Her toes definitely need to be filed more though, to help her with her breakover, and to help with the chipping and flaring. They do look very healthy though, just need a bit more filing done on them.
     
    07-09-2010, 01:35 PM
  #15
Green Broke
Yes I agree with all who have mentioned her toes, and like I said that was just before a trim -- she just had one and I'll have to get photos now for you, she has a nice roll going on :)

I'm a bit confused on the heel comments though...this person told me to put venice turpentine on her heels to toughen them up and make them grow a bit more...but some are saying they need to be shortened?

Is anyone on here a farrier? I'm just curious to get some opinions from one...I know there are farriers in this forum, hiding from me! ;)
     
    07-09-2010, 09:01 PM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofprints in the Sand    
I'm a bit confused on the heel comments though...this person told me to put venice turpentine on her heels to toughen them up and make them grow a bit more...but some are saying they need to be shortened?

Is anyone on here a farrier? I'm just curious to get some opinions from one...I know there are farriers in this forum, hiding from me! ;)
I'm a hoof care practitioner. But of course don't take any of our words for it here. Use our advice as food for thought & go learn the principles for yourself, to make an informed decision. As even among good hoof care professionals, there are differences of opinion and alternatives abound. There is new research giving grounds for new opinions cropping up everywhere too.....

My opinion of her heels & above comment... I think they're pretty reasonable. The back one shown is great, the front one a little long, but given that she was due for a trim, not bad at all. *As a rule*(there are so many exceptions...) I use the sole plane as a guide for trimming the walls and will keep them back to *within* 1/8" of the sole plane, maximum. One of the exceptions is if I've trimmed her back to near sole plane level, but next visit she looks like she does in front. This would tell me she has sensitive heels and *may* benefit from a *little* extra length in the short term, to allow her to comfortably use them until her digital cushions become stronger.

Regarding putting turpentine on her frogs, I don't advise this. They need to *grow* strong & thick, not just have a bit of a crust on them. Turps also won't encourage growth. The biggest thing that promotes growth is lots of good hoof function. That is, the more exercise the better, **with the hooves working correctly**. So for eg. If the above theory of sensitive heels were the case, I would be considering boots or such on hard ground(if the tad extra heel height didn't have the effect) to allow the horse to *comfortably* and therefore correctly use her feet, make heel first impacts and thereby develop those digital cushions/lateral cartilages to a point where she had strong, sound feet.

Upon looking again at the pics, I'm more inclined to think there is indeed a bit of separation there, so I would be particular about *keeping* the walls well rolled to keep any leverage forces acting against the laminae and I'd be careful with her diet. I await the next pics.

Best angles for pics are directly front- & side-on from near ground level and a range of angles of the sole, including sighting directly from heel to toe, to show height, balance & depth.
     
    07-09-2010, 10:47 PM
  #17
Green Broke
I think they look pretty good. As for the growing out and turpentine, I advise you to not listen to too much unprofessional advice and stick with sound professional knowledge. Some people without knowledge of proper foot function and health like longer hooves because they lok more "traditional" when really the less hoof wall in contact with the ground and the more frog contact the better the hoof mechanism will work.

As for the turpentine, it wirks like most other hoof treatment, it makes it *look* and *feel* stronger, but internally it does no good. Good hooves start from the inside with good feeding and proper balanced nutrition and can be made even better through good husbandry practices and plenty of healthy excersize on firm but forgiving, moderately dry ground.
     
    07-09-2010, 10:59 PM
  #18
Weanling
I agree that the heels are just a little bit high, not much. Its a little hard to see in the pictures but the side shot of the fronts - if you look at the top inch of the hoof in the front it has a slightly different angle then the rest of the way down. That is the angle in which the toe on the ground should be in line with. By bringing the heel shorter I think the toe would be in the right angle. The under shot of the bars by the heel look a little tall those too can be trimmed and yes rolled.
     

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