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Hoof Critique after first barefoot trim: Gypsie

4K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  totalfreedom 
#1 ·
Here's Gypsie!

FRONT RIGHT






FRONT LEFT






HIND RIGHT


 
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#10 ·
Ok... um... I'm confused. I asked for a critique, and I'm not sure what I got, lol.

These pics were taken about six hours after the trimmer left. I had to run nto town and didn't get any pics right immediately after she left. Overall, I was very impressed with the trimmer.

My mare has some problems with her front hooves growing inwards due to bone deformities in her fetlocks, so if you see something in the hoof that looks odd in the front, that's probably what it is. We balanced her and it's obvious to me that my mare is much more comfortable now.

Also, I'm battling both WLD and thrush in my horses hooves.
 
#12 ·
Ok... um... I'm confused. I asked for a critique, and I'm not sure what I got, lol.
The work is of such poor quality that there didn't seem any value in a detailed critique.

These pics were taken about six hours after the trimmer left. I had to run nto town and didn't get any pics right immediately after she left.
Six minutes, six hours, six days... wouldn't have changed my view.

Overall, I was very impressed with the trimmer.
Why?

My mare has some problems with her front hooves growing inwards due to bone deformities in her fetlocks, so if you see something in the hoof that looks odd in the front, that's probably what it is.
Nope, nothing to do with fetlock varus, valgus or any other defect. Just very poor, amateurish work.

We balanced her and it's obvious to me that my mare is much more comfortable now.
One can only speculate what the feet looked like before. Glad to hear the horse appears more comfortable.

Also, I'm battling both WLD and thrush in my horses hooves.
Ride that horse over challenging terrain and you may find yourself battling more than WLD and thrush.

Cheers,
Mark
 
#11 ·
I think you wre getting your critique, just not clearly. The entire hoof was done? I can see where they rasped the toe, though in some of the pictures the toes still look long. What stuck out to me were the chips on the front hooves. I'm not sure 6 hours should cause that unless your pasture is the grand canyon, but I dont know the terrain where you are. I am by no means an expert, but i dont like what i see at all. I'd find a different farrier for the future. If you think your horse is more comfortable now, jsut wait and see what a good, quality farrier can provide.
 
#13 ·
Ok, I'm totally confused here.

I'm not seeing any of the cracks that you guys are talking about. I've even went out and looked at my mares hooves in the pasture earlier and am still not seeing anything. The hooves look so much better than they did. All three of my horses hooves look a lot better after the trim, especially my stallion and gelding.

Horseman56, my mare isn't ridable anymore. She has too much arthritis issues to be ridden comfortably for very long anymore and is retired now.

Can someone point out to me what the problems you're seeing is? Cause I'm not seein' them. Where the toes are rasped, we're going to try and get the hoof to break-over and roll at the toe over the next few trims.

As for me being impressed with the trimmer, she knew what she was doing and provided me with a lot of information and took the time to show and explain to me what she was doing when I said I knew next to nothing about barefoot trimming. She took her time with my horses (she was out here for over three hours) and was super nice and helpful.
 
#20 ·
Ok, I'm totally confused here. Can someone point out to me what the problems you're seeing is? Cause I'm not seein' them. Where the toes are rasped, we're going to try and get the hoof to break-over and roll at the toe over the next few trims.
Fair enough.

Let's talk basics.

The equine hoof capsule serves two primary functions.


  1. Provide protection and support to internal structures.
  2. Provide primary distal support of the animals mass via the connective interdigital laminae and the distal phalanx.


This system of containment and support works best when:

  1. The capsule is in mechanical balance around the center of articulation of the distal interphalangeal joint.
  2. The capsule structural integrity is preserved. This means preservation of mass, volume and distal surface area.
Distal means "bottom" or "point furthest from the horses center". Look at the distal aspect of the hoof wall. Your trimmer used a rasp to remove nearly all of the ground surface of the wall.

From what can be seen in the photos, this is her only 'rabbit in the hat'. She reduced the total, weight bearing surface area of the distal wall. That dramatically increases the total load per unit of square measure on what little wall is left.

She has shifted primary load bearing from the wall to the softer tissues of the foot (frog and sole).

Let's look at load on the wall.

Given an average hoof (12" circumference, 3/8" wall thickness), properly trimmed, on a 1,000 lb horse, standing on an unyielding surface.

Load bearing surface = Wall circumference x wall thickness:
12" x .375" = 4.5 sq. in.

Maximum Static load on wall:
1,000 / 4.5 = 222 lbs per sq. in.

Look at your horse. Wall stripped away to 1/16" thickness or less.

Load bearing surface
12" x .0625" = 0.75 sq. in.

Maximum static load on wall:
1,000 / 0.75 = 1,333 lbs per sq. in.

Your trimmer increased load on the distal wall by a factor of 6.

What about dynamic breakover load?

Presume the anterior 1/3 of wall surface at moment of breakover.

Normal:
.375" x 4" = 1.5 sq. in.

Maximum Dynamic breakover load at toe:
1,000 lbs / 1.5 sq. in. = 1,500 lbs per sq in.

Your horse:
.0625" x 4" = 0.25 sq. in.

Maximum dynamic breakover load at toe:
1,000 / 0.25 = 4,000 lbs per sq in.

Your trimmer reduced breakover length of the phalangeal lever by about 3/8" at a cost of increasing breakover load on the wall by a factor of 3.

The structural integrity of the hoof wall has been severely compromised.

A competent farrier could have shod this horse in a manner that accomplished the same amount of breakover while dramatically increasing surface area and decreasing static and breakover load values.

Same 1,000 pound horse, shod with a 3/4" webbed shoe, rolled 3/8" at the toe.

Total static bearing surface area:
0.75 in. x 12" = 9 sq. in.

Maximum Static load on wall:
1,000 / 9 = 111 lbs per sq. in.

Total dynamic breakover surface area:
0.75 in. x 4 = 3 sq. in.

Maximum dynamic load at breakover:
1,000 / 3 = 333 lbs per sq. in.


When we increase (or preserve) the distal surface area of the weight bearing wall, we reduce pressure per unit of square measure.



Change the total mass values by whatever percentage you want, it doesn't change the comparative ratio of load per unit of square measure.

What does happen is that load is transferred to secondary weight bearing structures. The frog and sole now have to do what the missing hoof wall was designed to do; support the horse.

Should we place a small radius at the leading edge of the foot to reduce chipping/damage. Sure. Do so with an eye towards preserving as much wall thickness as possible.

What if we can't get that reduced breakover force in a manner that leaves the horse in d/p balance and still preserves hoof capsule integrity?

That's a good point at which to consider a set of shoes.

As for me being impressed with the trimmer, she knew what she was doing...
That's a matter of opinion. I'd argue she doesn't have a clue.

and provided me with a lot of information
Maybe... or maybe just an earful of barefoot dogma based on irrelevant stories about feral horses, proper hoof function and other such nonsense.

... and took the time to show and explain to me what she was doing when I said I knew next to nothing about barefoot trimming.
In other words, she bamboozled you and got away with it because you innocently didn't know any better.

She took her time with my horses (she was out here for over three hours)
She didn't take three hours because she is patient. She took three hours because she lacks knowledge, skill and experience.

... and was super nice and helpful.
Which, in the total service picture, isn't worth spit if you can't deliver a properly trimmed and/or shod horse.

Cheers,
Mark
 
#14 ·
I'm also not seeing where the toes look long... to me, they actually look super short...

Also, if the crack (I went back and looked at the pics again) is the one on the side of the front hoof, that is where the trimmer had to cut the hoofwall out where WLD was causing seperation. That's not a 'crack', it's where she had to cut the hoof wall out.
 
#15 ·
Unfortunately, I think you caught our "experts" in a snarky mood. I also don't see cracks. What I do see, however, are toes that need to come back and heels that are running forward which also need to come both back and down. I drew lines where the hoof wall should ideally be growing down in relation to which direction the new growth coming out of the coronet band is growing. If you compare that to the line on the heels, those should be parallel. In your horse's case, the heel angle does not match.

I was hoping by now, someone with more expertise would point out the balance issues for you since I can't explain it even though I'm beginning to be able to see it. What I don't get is why they are bashing your trimmer so much. Yes, a lot still needs to happen, but are we suddenly saying that all this hoof wall needs to be severly compromised and rasped away just to get those toes back? From those pics, while not pretty, the trimmer did attempt to bring the toes back by rasping down the lower 1/3 from the top. Was he/she supposed to blow right through the white line? My take on trimming was that 'less is more'. Assuming the trimmer keeps rolling those toes back, the new hoof capsule should grow in straighter over time, no?

Seriously guys, the OP asked for some help. Just give her some info. These forums are so we can learn, no?
 

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#16 ·
Ok what Mark was saying basically is that the wall was rasped down to the whiteline or beyond it seems in some pictures. Taking the "mustang roll" quite a bit overboard and causing the horse discomfort.

Too tired to comment on the rest.

She spent three hours on the one horse or several horses?
 
#19 ·
Thank you, MyBoyPuck, for taking the time to explain it better for me and drawing the lines and all. I see what you are saying plainly with the diagrams being able to be seen.

The trimmer did mention the new growth from the coronet band to me, but all she told me was that it was obvious that the spring and summer grass and the sugar in the grass effects my mare moreso than the other horses.


This was just their first trim with the trimmer, so she couldn't have fixed everything in one do, could she have I would think that would not do any good for my horses if she had tried to work on everything at one time. She did say that it will take time to fix their hooves, and she is scheduled to come back in six weeks.
 
#21 ·
From the looks of your horse's hooves & trim job, I'd say your barefoot trimmer is more skilled in her bedside manner than at actual hoof care. Heed the expert advice and find a fully trained farrier. Not one post on here said "Nice job", that is a big clue. However you came on here & posted pictures, shows me you are concerned & need advice, excellent!
 
#24 ·
Britt - You mentioned that your mare has fetlock bone deformities and that's why the front hooves may look a little weird. So perhaps your trimmer knows what is needed better than all of us looking at still pictures through the internet.

I think the hooves look good. There's a nice round roll on all the hooves which is excellent. The only stipulation I had was with the fronts, but then I saw you mention that the she has bone deformities and needed her hooves balanced that way......and you also said that she was moving around very comfortably. I think your trimmer knows what's best on how to balance the hooves for the deformities.....especially if you are saying that your mare is moving very comfortably.

The thrush.....there's lots of stuff you can do to treat it and get rid of it. But also you need to get the hoof LOTS of ground contact through movement. Pete Ramey said something to the effect, "to get rid of thrush....you need to outrun it", meaning the horse needs not only some sort of treatment for it, but also requires plenty of heel first landings.
 
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