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Hoof Help

2K views 14 replies 5 participants last post by  Trinity3205 
#1 ·
We just leased a 12 yr old TWH mare. We know that she foundered mildly this spring. Vet and farrier were called out and the mare removed from pasture. The owner has owned the mare for 8 yrs and she has never left their property or the pasture she is in (10 acres of grass) the owner does not remove the horses from pasture ever.

When we looked at the mare the farrier had been out 3-4 weeks ago post the founder incident. Her hooves are a mess. I trimmed them when we brought her home (I have taken hoof trimming classes) but want some advice on where to go from here. The mare limps very slightly after my trim but mainly when turning sharply. She is on a dry lot with grass hay here and a very small amt of oats with Remission added.

We have an option to buy this mare at a very reasonable price and would consider it as our horses have limited pasture turn out and eat only grass hay so managing grass founder should not be an issue. Below is a pic of her hoof after my trim. I split the difference with her as far as heel and wall height and brought back her toe as far as I thought I could. The purple is Thrush medicine as her bars were laid over half of her sole - I cut those to sole height but did not dig out any of the dead flaky sole. There is serious hoof wall separation due to poor hoof management and being over grown.

 
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#3 ·
What are your thoughts on removing the false sole? I cleaned feet up again last night and took some of the toe back and brought the heels back. When bring the toes back a very large piece of false sole came off -with fresh shiny slightly pink bruised sole underneath. I left her feet at that and put easy boots on her as she seemed tender. When the false sole came of it was obvious that her entire sole is coated with false sole but I am not sure if I should try and pick it off or not?
 
#4 ·
Smiley deals with an insulin resistant horse and so do I.

As an FYI, my IR horse is a TWH; they are on the "Predisposed List" for insulin resistance.

I suspect the owners know a lot more than they are saying, they don't want to deal with her metabolic issues, so they will let her go "cheap" to the first person who falls in love with her.

Before you buy the mare, have a PPE done and make sure to include blood work to check her insulin level AND her cortisol level;. Cortisol will indicate whether she is leaning toward Cushings.

If the Seller won't agree to a sale being contingent upon a PPE that include blood work, walk away from the horse.

HOOVES: my horse foundered pretty bad. We keep the false sole on, unless it shows it wants to come off. The farrier will also leave the toe callous alone, to some degree.

The boots are a fantastic idea. I alternate my horse in EasyCare Clouds and a pair of custom made "Hoofwings", since his hooves ended up hard to fit after the founder.

He is trimmed by a farrier every four weeks, I also know how to trim but old age and arthritis force me to just rasp the hooves in between 4-week farrier visits, if I need to.

OATS - get her off the oats right away. High in starch, not good for metabolic horses.

Keep the Remission and replace the oats with Timothy pellets (NOT Timothy/alfalfa pellets). TSC carries Standlee brand bagged hay cubes and pellets. I've been using the, four years without issue; they are never dusty, dirty or full of ------- stuff.

Hope this helps, best of luck with your decision:)
 
#5 ·
I thought Hondo had some serious wall separation a while back. Turned out the separation was from dead sole only. When the sole was trimmed to live sole bordering the capsule, turned out there was no separation at all.

Nice looking frog with no contraction. But as Smilie suggests, the heels are still looking a little long. And that's another spot where the live sole junction needs to be exposed as a trimming guide.

Be nice if you have enough time to bring the feet into balance and evaluate soundness before making any decisions to purchase.
 
#6 ·
Be nice if you have enough time to bring the feet into balance and evaluate soundness before making any decisions to purchase.
The horse grass foundered so there is more than just hoof soundness involved.

If the horse is any degree of insulin resistant, re-foundering is a huge issue. That means management of the horse becomes careful micro-managing, special feeds, and extra expense.

I happen to have an IR horse that so was far at the top of the scale, Cornell asked my vet for another blood sample. In 2012, his insulin reading was 303:shock::shock:

He has maintained a normal reading since 2013. March of this year his insulin reading was 94.

I do not take a cavalier attitude about grass founder as it always means the horse is having insulin issues, anywhere from low to "the horse should be dead" like my horse's reading was, initially.

This is why I am strongly suggesting a PPE that includes blood tests for metabolic issues. If the Seller won't permit that, the Seller knows a LOT more than they are saying and the OP should walk.

As far as rehabbing the hooves, I have done some pretty unconventional things with my foundered horse that nobody would believe, including my farriers. According to them my horse shouldn't have any hooves. I have managed to bring them back from the brink of destruction without using all the complex methods described by those "in the know". Not everything suggested on these forums or in articles Makes Sense To A Jackass".

Just looking at the soles, those hooves are a cakewalk compared to what I had to deal with, in terms of wall separation.

Degree of rotation would tell another story IF the OP wanted to opt for X-rays and the Seller agreed.
 
#8 ·
You have rain!?

Mercy, there's a bunch of us on this forum in need of rain ---- some worse than others.

How much time do you have, to decide whether or not you want her?
 
#9 ·
We got our rain, after a dry winter and spring!
It seems now, though, we are in that dreaded system of almost daily warning of severe thunder storms, risk of large hail, tornadoes, ect
So far we have dodged the bullet, with those storms sweeping by up , far as there major center of force
Never know quite what to do with the horses then-leave them out, or put them in the barn, so that it a tornado were to come through, they would be trapped
Can't turn Smilie out to pasture, where she would have room to run, so she and Charlie would be in the corral, with large trees on one side-some of which we have cut down, but not all

Back to feet. Realize even if she is sound today, the chances of a laminitic horse of having repeat incidences, even under careful management is great, with progressive damage occurring as the years go,by, depending on how IR the horse is
Smilie first foundered when she was about 4,and before I knew she was metabolic, or was even 'smart' in feeding horses, esp show horses
I first had her shod with support shoing, and she remained totally working sound that way, winning many ROMS, trail riding etc.
However, every winter when I pulled her shoes, and she was barefoot, she became less and less able to handle frozen ground, when the snow melted during a Chinook
Then began my barefoot journey and hoofboots. I quit showing her, and trail rode her with boots.
beyond my control, as when on holiday, when I had double knee replacements, when hubby left her gate open-well, you get the idea, she had repeat bouts of laminitis. Her sole became hypersensitive, partly from those incidents, but also from long term sole loading, so that she could not sand any kind of sole support and was not even totally okay with hoofboots and pads, unless they were cut to give relief in the area ni front of the apex of the frog. Her pasterns and heels were also getting sore from hoofboots
I then tried glue on easy shoes, with that natural trimmer over trimming hr, causing her to mechanically founder, so that her sole dropped way below wall level.
I have now ridden her very little in the last two years, but she has come back from the point where I thought of putting her down, to being comfortable with boots, long as I put shoes inside those boots, to give at least some wall sharing of load with that sole. Obviously no solution, and since her walls literally shut down growing, I had to find something else.

I had my mainstream farrier work with her, the only farrier I trust , and who I use to shoe my trail horses
He first had to build up her walls to sole level, with glue he uses to create toe extension for foals
I then had him help me to apply glue on shoes, that are new, and which I saw at the Mane Event (Glue shu
Not being comfortable with no frog support, I then had him use apour in sole pad on the back part of the foot only.
Certainly not a permanent solution, but she is once more moving with comfort on all footing, including her gravel corral, and her heels are out of boots
Next step? nNot sure, will see how her walls grow down. I did ride her briefly the other night, and it felt so wonderful!
I guess what I am saying, be prepared for long term commitment, with any soundness she has today, not a sure thing for the future
Myself, while I am totally committed to keeping Smilie going< I would not purposely buy a horse that I knew was laminitic. Lots of money , heartache and management!
 
#10 ·
My farrier was out yesterday and trimmed this mare - she removed more of the heel and the bars were more over laid than I had thought. She pared the bars back and the false sole came peeling off. Showing a very very bruised foot and heels. the right front was worse than the left - heel bruising was visible in one back hoof on the caudal heel. Mare walked off slowly but was gaiting later in the day in the dry lot. Still sore but walking willingly. Rained 2 1/2 inches last night and mare is still walking a little gingerly today- farrier recommended booting while not in her stall run and no grass at all for a few weeks as she felt there was a small amount of swelling in the foot still. Mare has been ridden on the trails and in lessons. In face she went on 2 trail rides last week (about 4 miles each time) and had one 1 hour lesson. She seems more lame now than when we brought her home and her feet were horridly long. x-rays are scheduled - still trying to take pics but it is quite muddy and the pics just look like muddy feet.
 
#11 ·
7/28/16 Update: We purchased this mare after the thumbs up from our farrier and vet. She does not show any clinical signs of IR and vet check was good.

She is no longer sore on the front but has developed a pesky abcess on a back hoof. It broke through once and she was fine an now she is limping again. I can see a dark spot in the seedy toe area of her hoof - she is wrapped and poultice with an Epson salt poultice.

This has been going on for about a week now - any suggestions for drawing that abcess out faster? Farrier says leave it be - it is horribly hot and humid here with temps in the 90's and heat indexes in the low 100's- the horses are not moving around much so we are not riding.
 
#13 ·
I am a bit confused. The mare foundered on grass, yet shows no sign of being IR?
Chronic bruising and abscessing is part of the picture in these horses,as sole depth is missing, but if your farrier and vet feel she should have no soundness issues, then I certainly won't argue
Good luck.You can also use animal lintex pads to draw the abcess

https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/animalintex-614

here is avideo, how to use it to draw an abscess

 
#14 ·
8/8 update. Vet came out to do coggins and shots and was quite happy with how mare looks and her weight and muscling. The abcess or lack there of disappeared without every draining. She is gaiting in the dry lot and field at liberty and will canter. She wears hoof boots when being ridden. We discussed the founder and her hoof issues with the vet. He treated her at the previous owners. he said there is new info that after a founder incident that some of the rotation will reverse itself. Not all some! He is going to give me the vet journal with the article. My horses are very limited on pasture so there is no free access to green pasture here- we feed low NSC feeds and in extremely small amounts- he was not concerned at all with IR. He felt that her severe obesity along with the change from cool to warm temps that shot the grass up led her to foundering. Her pasture mates are still there on the same pasture and are grossly obese with sub par hoof care.

I am not saying that after founder her feet will be 100% but she has had 8yrs of virtually 2-3 trims per year and no riding- she has no toe callous and brittle hoof walls. The new growth we are seeing is smooth and looks great. The bruised areas of her hoof are growing out and pockets of old bruising may abcess per the vet - we are expecting this.

For now she is doing great in the lot and small paddock and gaiting willingly in her weekly lessons with my husband.
 
#15 ·
Proper trimming will indeed get rid of rotation so long as the cause is removed and the lamina/bone isnt damaged to the point it isnt possible. You dont de-rotate the bone, you are actually growing the new hoof capsule out around the new bony alignment. Any well educated trimmer or farrier can do this, but many old school folks or those who haven't kept up with schooling can not and do not know how to trim this way. I have trimmed horses that ended up so well re grown that no one, even educated eyes, could know or tell the horse had foundered before unless they were told.
 
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