Hoof too short - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 53 Old 04-28-2012, 06:34 PM
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I don't know why there is a belief that a good trimmer can fix all the hoof problems. Sometimes shoes and a clever farrier can do the horse far more good than just trimming. If people would take the time to research the hoof problems farriers deal with and have returned many horses to soundness and can eventually go barefoot again. If your doctor prescribed orthotics for your child would you put it in mocassins because they are "natural" . A farrier is an orthotic specialist for horses. Perhaps it's time to change the name.
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post #22 of 53 Old 04-28-2012, 06:35 PM
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What makes a club foot more a problem regarding shoes/no shoes? I have several guesses, but am curious why this type of foot might need a shoe more than a normal foot.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #23 of 53 Old 04-28-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag View Post
I don't know why there is a belief that a good trimmer can fix all the hoof problems.

You don't think this horse is in need of a competent trimmer? I'm not talking shoes/no shoes. I don't care if they slap a shoe on it or not. Leaving those toes like that is just plain wrong, no matter who trimmed it.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #24 of 53 Old 04-30-2012, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck View Post
What makes a club foot more a problem regarding shoes/no shoes? I have several guesses, but am curious why this type of foot might need a shoe more than a normal foot.
IME (assuming the clubbed feet are there to stay - rather than being due to bad trimming, weak heels, a conformational/postural problem that can be alleviated with bodywork, etc) The problem with club feet going bare is that the heels aren't useable & the toes are pointing into the ground & impacting first. All the problems that go along with those mechanics mean they generally require protection & support.

Sure I've asked this question before, but what gives you the idea it's a 'congenital defect' that caused this horse's 'clubby' feet Mark? Perhaps you have a lot more info than has been given here about the horse, or perhaps you consider every case of high heels congenital?

Last edited by loosie; 04-30-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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post #25 of 53 Old 04-30-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Sure I've asked this question before, but what gives you the idea it's a 'congenital defect' that caused this horse's 'clubby' feet Mark?
Whether genetic, congenital or acquired, management in a mature horse will still be dependent upon severity of condition rather than aetiology.

If congenital (in-utero causation), there is often evidence of genetic influence.

Acquired aetiology is, in my opinion and experience, a less common probability and is still likely to have a DNA component.

The salient point being that regardless aetiology, no one is going to just trim, exercise or feed this horse into having a conformationally correct hoof capsule. Physics is a cruel taskmaster and management requires an understanding of the rules.

Quote:
Perhaps you have a lot more info than has been given here about the horse,...
Nope... only what the owner has provided, but experience and training often provide the basis for more informed pathology recognition and management protocol availability.

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, or perhaps you consider every case of high heels congenital?
Nope. That would be akin to barefoot trimmers that see every instance of a growth ring as indicative of laminitis. In club footed horses, excess heel growth is a symptom, not a pathology, and wasn't really a factor in my view of this case. The defining photographic factors were the phalangeal alignment, a bulging dorsal coronary, the angle of the proximal aspect of the dorsal wall and the distortion of the wall. The abscess description was suggestive before the photos.

You see "run out toes", "stretched feet" and "possible significant rotation", all managed or mismanaged by someone you referred to as a "joker". The first two out of three are vague subjective characterizations with no definitive pathological basis with the third being an unwarranted suggestion of laminitis.

I see a grade 2, possibly grade 3, club footed horse that would benefit from the services of a full service, professional farrier.

Equine Podiatry | Dr. Stephen O'Grady, veterinarians, farriers, books, articles

NANRIC INC - How to Treat Club Feet

Cheers,
Mark
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post #26 of 53 Old 04-30-2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseman56 View Post
Whether genetic, congenital or acquired, management in a mature horse will still be dependent upon severity of condition rather than aetiology. ...
The salient point being that regardless aetiology, no one is going to just trim, exercise or feed this horse into having a conformationally correct hoof capsule.
I disagree with the above(except for the 'just' in the second comment - usually takes a more holistic approach), as it does very much depend on the cause as to the likelihood of a 'fix' IME & whether or not the underlying reason is changeable/treatable. Eg. If the horse is landing toe first due to weak heels, working to develop those heels can indeed get him using his feet properly & allow heels to come down. I think it does depend also(not rather than cause) on the severity and longevity of the state too of course.

Quote:
Nope. That would be akin to barefoot trimmers that see every instance of a growth ring as indicative of laminitis.
Not really, because people have different definitions of laminitis, but not 'congenital defect' IMO. I was asking why you said it's congenital.

Quote:
You see "run out toes", "stretched feet" and "possible significant rotation", all managed or mismanaged by someone you referred to as a "joker". The first two out of three are vague subjective characterizations with no definitive pathological basis with the third being an unwarranted suggestion of laminitis.
Don't quite get your comments - the run out toes are quite evident in the pics, obvious in the fronts at least, being such pronounced flares. I think that adds up to your 'definitive pathological basis'. The steepness of the fronts(ignoring the flares, or 'aetiology') suggests the distal border of P3 is on a significant angle. IMO that doesn't necessarily add up to laminitis, but in this case, with the obvious & substantial flaring, it's more than a distinct possibility IME. Of course, I'm not a vet, so can't(legally at least) make an objective diagnosis, even if there was a reasonable amount of info & rads to go on. So yes, with this little info & few poor(from a critique perspective) pics, I agree that it's a bit 'vague & subjective'.

Quote:
I see a grade 2, possibly grade 3, club footed horse that would benefit from the services of a full service, professional farrier.
I agree(to needing a good farrier/trimmer) but I don't think it's wise to ignore/discount factors such as diet, bodywork, protection/support, etc which may be playing significant parts in the 'conformation' of his hooves.
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post #27 of 53 Old 04-30-2012, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Ok...sorry it took me a bit to get back to you guys. Life kinda got in the way. I am having issues remembering to take photos while I am there. I tend to not remember until I am half way home and dead tired. Hopefully they will be up soon. One of the biggest problems I have had with Romeo and his feet is the lack of a farrier period. That is part of the reason his feet were in such bad shape. Yes, it has caused separation and several other problems.
I just for the life of me could not get a farrier to stick. It's not that my horses misbehave or anything. I always pay cash and at least put a $10.00 tip on top of the fee regardless. It's just that nobody wanted to drive all the way out to my horses for just a "two horse job". It was frustrating beyond belief and made getting Romeo's feet in order a VERY hard job.

NOW...on to the good news. This is the second time I have used my new farrier and I love the way he is with Romeo and the job he has done. I will keep trying to get those pics up for you guys so you can critique his job and see if it needs any improvement. Romeo now sports four new shoes and is moving great. He was walking on his sole on the front. The above pics were from where the mom's BF decided he was going to "trim him" without my consent. No worries....they have been severely chastised and all tools have been removed from the barn at my mom's. But that is why it looked like such a hack job....because it was. It made Romeo end up walking on his sole on the front and that is why in the pics he is holding his feet so funny looking. He was in some very ouchy pain at the time the pics were taken. But, the camera bag and the grass were too interesting for him to pass up...lol.

But, I wanted you guys to know that he has seen the farrier and all is well for now. I really think this farrier will stick and we can have Romeo on a nice scheduled plan to get his hoofs in order. The farrier wants to see him back in 5 wks. Things look good for now. Thank you all for your advice and help.
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post #28 of 53 Old 04-30-2012, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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You guys are having an interesting debate. If you have any questions that I can answer about Romeo...feel free to ask. I will answer if I can.
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post #29 of 53 Old 05-03-2012, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok...so I finally remembered to take some photos. Here is what I got. Please, if you have any tips or anything let me know. Farrier says it will take a few sessions before we get Romeo's feet in order.


So, here are the pics. Bear with me as Romeo was being a butt today and not happy to stand still. Also, had a little helper (younger sister) who wanted to take the pics. And yes I did a very bad "no-no"...I wore flip flops to the barn. I understand it was bad. My poor boots were soaked and I just wanted to run out to take some quick pics.

BACK LEFT HOOF:






FRONT LEFT HOOF:








BACK RIGHT HOOF:







FRONT RIGHT HOOF:


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post #30 of 53 Old 05-03-2012, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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ROMEO STANDING AROUND:





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