A host of hoof issues. Mainly thrush and frog..
   

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A host of hoof issues. Mainly thrush and frog..

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  • Horse doesn't have much frog
  • Frog of the horses foot falling off

 
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    06-19-2011, 10:25 PM
  #1
Trained
A host of hoof issues. Mainly thrush and frog..

It's been a rough spring for us! We've never had thrush here before so I am a total newbie to all of this. I've been spending hours at a time searching the forum to find out what people do for thrush and I've learned a ton!

We had the vet out less than a week after the initial diagnosis by the farrier (he had scraped it out) since we freaked out because we had no clue what we were getting into. I did bleach/water soakings in between the two. He soaked it and put formalin on it and instructed us to do the same the next day then not worry about it as it should be fine. I did that and then didn't worry so much - first stupid mistake. It was OK for a bit - I was doing frequent cleanings - but then it came back.

I invested in an itty bitty brass scrub brush and have been doing picking 2-3 times per day and once including scrubbing with the brush and bleach spraying, then drying since last Tuesday. The picking for several weeks though. It seems to have started to bring it under control, but I have gathered from my research that bleach isn't the best as it kills healthy tissue, too. Duh..makes sense. So tonight I started with ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in place of bleach. It seemed to work nicely tonight. My first question - does the ACV need to be diluted or is straight better?

Oh yeah, and in this time my other horse seems to have developed it even though I was cleaning his hooves too.. So, I've been doing them both the same. It's been an icky wet winter/spring. It started getting wet in about February and never dried up completely until last week. Now it's been raining again for the last 24+hrs.

Also, this doesn't seem to really be so much in the frog as it is in the sole and along the edge of the hoof. Would this be more like white line disease? I meant to take pictures tonight, but I forgot. The frog looks black and icky, but I'm not sure. Farrier comes Tuesday so I will see what he says.

Part of the problem I am sure is that he goes 8 weeks between visits?? We never used to go this long... With our old farrier it was 4 in the summer and 6 in the winter. Or maybe 6 in the summer and 8 in the winter. I don't remember. We've had this same farrier for several years now and it's always been 8 weeks. They had some chipping but it was never a huge issue. I plan to see if he can come back in 4 weeks to make sure we get this under control and they don't get long. Then maybe switch to 6 weeks if all is well and see how that works? What are your thoughts?

I have Tomorrow Dry Cow on order as of yesterday, so hopefully that gets here early this week.

The other issue I'm having..

My old guy is 31 and has had arthritis since we got him at 20. After the last farrier visit I think something major happened to one of his joints (Vet is not sure what. He recommended X-Rays but the closest were at least 4hrs away and much more than we were willing to put in money wise - read more below. Besides that, we were fairly sure we knew what happened and what was causing his pain) He started leaning very very heavy to one side, then progressed to circling when he'd put his head down as he couldn't keep his balance. He would (and still very infrequently will) lean on something to rest when he was near something stable enough. We started him on Smartpacks - the senior stuff with glucosamine, etc. once/day right away and 1gm bute 2x/day, and this seems to have nearly resolved the issue. He only leans when he starts to get tired it seems like. But as a result of this the hoof he was leaning on is all broken off and uneven from the pressure and the hoof he was favoring (the one with the thrush) seems to be falling apart. My biggest concern is that the frog seems to be falling off. Could this be from lack of stimulation? Or would it be the thrush?

We plan to have him put down in the fall as winters have become too hard on him. We feed him a lot of mashed senior feed (Purina and Triple Crown) and do all we can for him, but it's just his time we feel. Summers are Okay and falls are great, which is why we are doing what we can to keep his feet under control and him comfortable until then. He seems very happy now that he's back on pasture and even canters around as of the last few weeks since his hips/"knees" have been better.

I plan to get pictures tomorrow, so hopefully those will help.

I think that's it for the novel...I hope it all makes sense!!
     
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    06-20-2011, 04:50 AM
  #2
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by RusticWildFire    
I invested in an itty bitty brass scrub brush and have been doing picking 2-3 times per day and once including scrubbing with the brush and bleach spraying, then drying since last Tuesday. The picking for several weeks though. It seems to have started to bring it under control, but I have gathered from my research that bleach isn't the best as it kills healthy tissue, too. Duh..makes sense. So tonight I started with ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in place of bleach. It seemed to work nicely tonight. My first question - does the ACV need to be diluted or is straight better?
You can use ACV straight, but you may also want to try using betadine (iodine). Many of the old timers around here will brush betadine on the sole/frog everyday when the ground is swampy to fight bacteria/fungus and help dry out the feet.
     
    06-20-2011, 08:02 AM
  #3
Trained
Okay, I've been thinking about that, too just didn't have any on hand or anywhere to pick any up asap. So, next time I'm out of town and can get to a store with it, I'll pick some up and do that!

Thank you!
     
    06-20-2011, 11:50 AM
  #4
Foal
I had a horse founder recently and has made a full recovery...but one of the things I used to toughen her soles up per the vet was iodine...he gave me a bottle with a sprayer on it and I sprayed it on her soles alot...also made sure she had sand (soft surface) when she was on stall rest. My walker is the main one that has issues with the thrush and getting puss pockets in his frogs for some reason...while he gets regular trims and front shoes for some reason his frogs grow faster than most and I finally just broke down and bought a hoof knife so on days that are so wet I can make sure to keep his frogs trimmed up (not allowing alot of mud to stay hidden up in the cracks around the frog). For the first time in 8 months he didnt have any puss pockets or punctures in his frogs. I had the farrier show me how far or much I can actually keep his frogs trimmed and I found that the end of the hoof knife really help me keep his feet cleaned out much better than just a hoof pic. I also started spraying iodine on his soles (also some thrush buster was used a few times) when they got paticularly soft from being wet. We don't get alot of rain here in texas but the creeks also keep his feet muddy at times. I think just by keeping his frogs trimmed back (because his hooves have normal growth) in order to ensure I can get to all the areas has helped me alot.
     
    06-20-2011, 03:23 PM
  #5
Trained
Very good advice! I'll have to look into that as well, hhadavis. Thank you!
     
    06-20-2011, 05:15 PM
  #6
Started
I think it's Farnam who has a thrush medicine in a spray bottle. Which is great because it's that nasty green stuff that stinks to high heaven and won't come off fingers and clothes! In SE Texas we usually get a lot of rain, but this year it's exceptionally dry.
     
    06-20-2011, 09:18 PM
  #7
Trained
Unhappy

Haha gigem, do you know what it is called?



I finally got the pictures.. Sort of. Trying to upload them to Photobucket right now. Hopefully before bedtime it's all done and I can attach them. Farrier comes tomorrow! YeeHaw!

It's sort of funny because I'm not sure if these pictures are deceiving and mud looks more like thrush, or if it really is thrush that's not as noticeable unless it's in the pictures. It's very possible as there isn't great lighting in the barn where I was, but it is also very, very muddy out after our 24+hour rain yesterday. I'll see what you all think. However, I know his hooves are long - as I said it's been 8 weeks, but they look about 3x's longer in the pictures than in person, so I don't know.

Hunter - the young guy - is the only one that cooperated tonight. Scooter just wouldn't cooperate. I got pictures of his worst hoof but they were too blurry to see anything as I was trying to wrestle him and take pictures at the same time. I gave him an extra bute this evening and will again in the morning in hopes the farrier can do something with him. He was leaning lots again tonight for the first time in a while :(..




There is some in the frog it seems to me, but as I said I've been finding the white powdery stuff in the crack between his hoof wall and sole in his heels and also some on the sole.

Left Front


Left Rear


Right Rear

&


Right Front


I also took some pictures of his hooves standing to see before and after trim pictures. If all goes well maybe I can post some of those tomorrow.
     
    06-20-2011, 10:28 PM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by RusticWildFire    
He soaked it and put formalin on it and instructed us to do the same the next day then not worry about it as it should be fine. I did that and then didn't worry so much - first stupid mistake. It was OK for a bit - I was doing frequent cleanings - but then it came back.
Yes, thrush does tend to come back, especially if the feet &/or environment isn't great. So don't 'worry' too much, but keep up the management. This year seems to have been a bad year for it everywhere. ACV is generally a pretty good deterrent and treatment of minor issues, but I'd use something like iodine, copper sulphate, etc for major infections. I would not put formalin anywhere near a horse's hoof... unless it was a cadaver. Ensuring the horses have a dry area at least to stand is a good idea. Creating an area of 'pea gravel' or such is good.

Quote:
Also, this doesn't seem to really be so much in the frog as it is in the sole and along the edge of the hoof. Would this be more like white line disease?
Yes, when the laminae become separated & infection gets in, this is known as 'white line disease' 'seedy toe' etc. By the look of the pics, it may not be too severe yet, but you're right that 8 weeks is obviously far too long & the hooves are way overgrown, putting more stress on the laminae(among other areas), which can cause them to separate & allow the infection in. I think it's a very good idea to get their feet done every 4 weeks. That seems to be a pretty good schedule for most horses. Of course, being *well* trimmed is also important, and there are other important management steps you can take, so learning all you can about the principles & factors involved is a good idea, not only to get a better idea of whether this farrier's doing a decent job or not. Hoofrehab.com & barehoofcare.com are 2 good sites to begin with.

Quote:
once/day right away and 1gm bute 2x/day, and this seems to have nearly resolved the issue. He only leans when he starts to get tired it seems like. But as a result of this the hoof he was leaning on is all broken off and uneven from the pressure and the hoof he was favoring (the one with the thrush) seems to be falling apart. My biggest concern is that the frog seems to be falling off. Could this be from lack of stimulation? Or would it be the thrush?
Poor boy. I personally wouldn't worry too much about his feet then, as there seems no real prospect of great improvement. I'd just concern yourself with keeping him comfortable & happy for his last few months... & if you can't, consider that a few months could possibly be too long for him. As for the frog, yes, 'if you don't use it, you lose it' so lack of stimulation does cause atrophy. Thrush also can cause this, but if you continue to manage the infection to keep it at bay it's unlikely to cause him any real drama in the ensuing months.

Quote:
main one that has issues with the thrush and getting puss pockets in his frogs for some reason...while he gets regular trims and front shoes for some reason his frogs grow faster than most and I finally just broke down and bought a hoof knife so on days that are so wet I can make sure to keep his frogs trimmed up
Hadavis, this sounds like a serious issue and something is very not-right. Over trimming frogs can also cause infection too. It can be a good idea to trim away any daggy bits & flaps, to reduce the attractive environments for thrush, but I wouldn't generally advise doing more than that. Is it possible the heels are too high or such and the frogs are 'growing faster' because they're just trying to get to the ground for some support/stimulation(as they should)? I find that, if I trim something I think is in excess and it quickly grows right back, it may have needed to be there for some reason and it was a mistake of me to remove it. Otherwise is it possible it's canker? That is definitely not a condition to mess around with.
     
    06-21-2011, 07:33 AM
  #9
Trained
Loosie,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! Very informative.

We have been toying around with the idea of not having Scooters hooves done at all as the end is near for him, but I don't want them to become painful for him if everything else is going relatively Okay. However, if it is just going to set him back again and cause more trauma, I don't want to do it either. I plan to talk to the farrier this morning to see what he thinks when he sees him.

And most certainly, if things don't continue to go well for Scooter we will have him put down asap as I do not want him to suffer - he has been far too good to us to be that selfish in my mind. We were actually going to this spring, but decided to give the glucosamine mix and bute a try to see what it did, but I really was thinking it was too little too late for him. However, it helped so we are now playing it as it comes.

Thank you again!
     
    06-21-2011, 09:00 AM
  #10
Started
It's Farman-XX Thrush Treatment Aerosol. Sorry for the lag in replying, went home and crashed!
     

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