How do these hooves look? Improvement?
   

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How do these hooves look? Improvement?

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  • What good hooves look like
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    09-17-2012, 05:00 PM
  #1
Showing
How do these hooves look? Improvement?

Original thread from May: Input on these hooves?

He ended up going lame shortly after these pictures were taken, and I trailered him to the vet twice hoping for a disgnosis. In the end, putting a bigger shoe on did the trick, as a patch of cut up hoof near the frog was being irritated coming down on the ground with every step. He is now sound and healthy.

I had the farrier remove the pads after this incident and put him in 0s in front. A week ago he asked if he could try a thicker shoe, though I'm disappointed he put 00s on and not 0s. I was not here when he came so I couldn't ask for 0s instead.

Tell me what you think.

Fronts:

IMG_0310.jpg

Backs:

IMG_0313.jpg

Back right:

IMG_0312.jpg

Front left:

IMG_0315.jpg

Rear view:

IMG_0319.jpg

Front right:

IMG_0321.jpg
IMG_0323.jpg

Front left:

IMG_0325.jpg
IMG_0326.jpg

More coming
     
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    09-17-2012, 05:05 PM
  #2
Showing
IMG_0328.jpg
IMG_0329.jpg

Back right:

IMG_0331.jpg
IMG_0332.jpg

Back left:

IMG_0333.jpg
IMG_0335.jpg

Let me know if you need any additional angles. I had an antsy horse and a crabby sister holding said horse, so I got what I could .

Conformation photo:

IMG_1225 - Copy.jpg
     
    09-18-2012, 12:19 AM
  #3
Green Broke
I'm not a professional nor do I have any training in hoof care, but that doesn't look like a very good shoeing job. It looks like the heels are not well balanced, and the shoes are a little small with no heel support. It's hard to say definitively from a few photos, but it appears that the high/clubbed foot is getting steeper and the other front getting flatter; overall they look more mismatched than before. The backs are still very underrun, and the frogs don't look as healthy as they did before.
     
    09-18-2012, 03:33 AM
  #4
Trained
Love to see rads of these feet. Afraid little if any improvement IMO sorry. Still same issues basically. I drew on some of your pics to hopefully better explain.

**Firstly the usual 'disclaimer'... only going off a handful of pics doesn't give a really accurate view. Also the angles shown make it harder to get a good idea. Eg. In the original thread, the angle of front left pic which I included here makes it look clubbed too, but in a different shot, it looks long but low heeled. Not to mention different opinions & approaches to consider too. Therefore, take my advice very much as 'guesstimates' & food for thought. For more accurate critique, check out the link in my signature for hoof pic tips.

Green lines indicate where the hoof wall 'wants' to be. This estimate for toe walls is mostly going off the top half inch of growth and the pastern angles. Blue lines indicate approx how I'd trim to help facilitate growth of tightly connected walls & uncrushed heels. I think a huge factor of crushed forward heels are those long toes, allowing leverage to pull the heels forward too. Putting a slight 'bevel' on the heel, to bring the bearing surface back can help allow heels to relax back too, which can be especially helpful if heels are already at/near sole level so can't be actually 'lowered' more.

BUT once heels are crushed like that, I don't think that only backing up toes tends to achieve a lot on it's own. Far from heels of shoes providing 'support' for crushed heels, I think they perpetuate them by keeping constant pressure on them. I don't know that I've ever seen run under heels improved much with conventionally applied shoes. For that & other problems, I'd be inclined to keep the shoes off, at least until his feet are in much better shape. Particularly if you are to keep him shod, I would put that heel bevel on, to 'float' the heels & give them some relief from being crushed, and I would support the frogs, to allow them to take some of the pressure off the heel walls.

So... in the earlier pics, while it seems that the toes, particularly fronts are still too long/forward, the backs at least look like they're about backed up adequately.

Re the high heeled foot, I don't think it's a good move to even think about matching those feet, at very least without a lot more info & a good bodyworker. I'd use the sole plane as a guide for how much you may or may not be able to take the heels down, today, next trim, in the future... If you aim to keep the wall height at or very close to the level of the sole plane, if/when the heels can come down further, they'll 'let you know', by the sole at the seat of corns exfoliating & leaving more 'excess' heel wall.

Also regarding the clubbed foot, as the pedal bone is 'rotated' and the sole likely thin at the toe because of that confo, I'd be padding that sole to provide extra protection. The little red lines showing the sort of 'divot' above the hairline indicate that I think the hoof capsules have been pushed up higher in relation to the joints - or conventionally you could think of it as P3 'sinking' in the capsule.

Lastly the pink lines on the sole pic indicate the 'landmarks' that help assess balance in relation to the centre of articulation. The back line is approx where the heel buttresses 'should' be, the middle line is around level with the bar cracks, widest point of the foot and the most forward pink line is worked out by measuring the distance between the other two. That line is approx where the natural breakover of that particular hoof should be, so the green crescent line is approx where the toe 'should' end, with an additional quarter inch or so for leeway. About the best source of info I've found online for balance in this regard is at e-hoofcare.com

Given the very small lateral cartilages indicating very little digital cushions, I'd probably be inclined to pad those frogs to provide more support & protection all round.
     
    09-18-2012, 04:18 AM
  #5
Trained
Doh! Forgot to attach pics... 1st 3 are last thread, rest are current
Attached Images
File Type: jpg last all.jpg (78.0 KB, 278 views)
File Type: jpg current all.jpg (57.5 KB, 276 views)
File Type: jpg current FL sole.jpg (37.1 KB, 264 views)
     
    09-18-2012, 06:57 AM
  #6
Showing
Thank you very much for the pictures and descriptions. I've found a new, very reputable farrier (has a reputation for correcting bad hooves) that I'll start using when he comes back from vacation, so this is the last job with this farrier. I'll definitely mention the heel bevel, but what do you mean by padding the sole of the club? With what type of padding?
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    09-18-2012, 08:15 PM
  #7
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by equiniphile    
but what do you mean by padding the sole of the club? With what type of padding?
Even if you take care of the flared toe, the high heel means that P3 is 'rotated' in relation to the ground - the toe is pointing into the ground, rather than the base being nearly ground parallel. So mechanical 'founder' is a big problem. They usually have/end up with very thin soles at the toe, so extra padding for protection can be necessary. In boots I'd use foam or rubber pads, but with shoes you can use Vettec Sole Guard or such.

As for frog support pads, for helping take some weight off those crushed heel walls, as well as provide more *comfortable* stimulation for the weak heels, I use a wedge(frog) shaped foam pad, but under shoes, again you could do this with Vettec.

How old is the horse BTW? He's an OTTB? Depending on how mature he is, how young when the damage done, etc, you may not see any real improvement in heels/digital cushions, and IME those sloping, low heeled backs are probably like that due to a body issue(a bodyworker may help), but even if you can't 'fix' everything, if you can set him up for the best hoof function he's able, it should be able to be managed well enough that it won't cause any real dramas down the line.
     
    09-18-2012, 08:23 PM
  #8
Foal
I have to say... that shoeing job was one of the worst I've seen. I'm glad your going to change shoers. Can I make one more recommendation?



Please use some decent horseshoes on your friend. These on the right (verses a normal shoe on the left) are called Center Fit (the one shown is a HIND) available at most farrier supply shops. They are a little bit more (about $6 bucks a shoe) but they support the coffin bone and not the wall, so they make a sore horse feel a lot better in record time. I was told about them from a thoroughbred rescue called Rolling Bay Rescue because Thoroughbreds have notoriously bad feet (OTTBs are bred out of their feet) and this really does help with the tenderfootedness.

Good luck!
     
    09-18-2012, 08:38 PM
  #9
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
How old is the horse BTW? He's an OTTB? Depending on how mature he is, how young when the damage done, etc, you may not see any real improvement in heels/digital cushions, and IME those sloping, low heeled backs are probably like that due to a body issue(a bodyworker may help), but even if you can't 'fix' everything, if you can set him up for the best hoof function he's able, it should be able to be managed well enough that it won't cause any real dramas down the line.
He's a seven-yr old OTTB. I bought him two weeks off the track in 2010 (5 y/o), and I'm confident the damage was done before then, as his track buyer knew he had bad hooves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centaurheart    
I have to say... that shoeing job was one of the worst I've seen. I'm glad your going to change shoers. Can I make one more recommendation?

Please use some decent horseshoes on your friend. These on the right (verses a normal shoe on the left) are called Center Fit (the one shown is a HIND) available at most farrier supply shops. They are a little bit more (about $6 bucks a shoe) but they support the coffin bone and not the wall, so they make a sore horse feel a lot better in record time. I was told about them from a thoroughbred rescue called Rolling Bay Rescue because Thoroughbreds have notoriously bad feet (OTTBs are bred out of their feet) and this really does help with the tenderfootedness.

Good luck!
I've never heard of these, thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely ask my new farrier about them.
     
    09-18-2012, 08:43 PM
  #10
Foal
You're welcome. I have a brand new monster OTTB in my pasture that is tenderfooted on the front due to abuse. He's getting a brand new set of these later this week. So its not from heresay I suggest this, but from first hand experience. Thoroughbreds can have great feet. We just have to feed them right and get them in the right farrier's care. :)
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