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I seriously just want to cry I'm so frustrated, hoof experts help :(

19K views 96 replies 27 participants last post by  Gluey33 
#1 ·
My gelding Gunnar...background...
He's had 3 owners before me. Called the people on his last years coggins. They had him from 5years old until 9 when they sold him. Someone(I dont know who) bought him and then their husband lost his job so they had to turn around and sell him 3 months later. That's when my barn owner called me to go look at him.
Okay.
So we get his feet looked at, he's healthy good feet except his shoes were on crooked and a size too small. Ok, got correct shoes on. Find out his heels ( I dont know the terminology) they grow inwards instead of straight down. So he has custom shoes on that stick out a little wider than his heels to pull his heel out where it should be. Okay, that's working no problems they are starting to come outwards.
His feet have gone so downhill in about a month I just want to cry. It's like he had his feet trimmed and now a month and a half later they look aweful...
He's developed white line in one of his front, the other front his hoof is peeling! I dont know how that's possible but it is.. in the back his foot is peeling as well and there is a vertical dent all the way up like it's going to split or crack! :(
The biggest issue is his frog appears to have peeled and it has peeled on his cornet band! I am at such a loss for what to do. He's being looked at by the farrier tomorrow at 2. I'm just looking for anyone who has experience with this kind of thing and has any reccomendations as to what I should bring up with the farrier or any ways to help him.
He isn't lame and theres no heat.

^ on his heel is where it's peeling away :/

^ That little hole is white line, there's also a small bit(at least it was small a month ago) under his shoe that my farrier put some weird gunk on that's supposed to kill it?

^My biggest issue :( his frog has peeled his cornet band
 
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#32 ·
For the longest time Gunnar's feet were not seeming to grow. He went a solid 3 months over winter without being done. Now it's been about 5 weeks since his last trim. I agree about the barefoot if possible but I have NO problems with shoes if it's what's best for Gunnar. I'll have him trimmed however frequently he wants. He seems to really know what he's doing. I can't wait to hear what he wants to do with Gunnar.
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#33 ·
I am very happy for you. Can't wait to see before and after pictures. When I bought Biscuit his feet had been just chopped off and short at that. It took 3 months of growth even get where I would even think about rasping them. I spent that time teaching him to pick up his feet!

Sounds like this farrier will be a good match for you.
 
#37 ·
You were smart to realize that you needed a better farrier. I am dying to know who your farrier was that put way to smal lof shoes on and exacerbated terribly contracted heels. I live in St. Charles and have a fantastic farrier. He has kept my clydesdales feet in great condition and his hooves look like rotten tree trunks. Contact me if you need another opinion I know several great farriers in the area.
 
#38 ·
I don't want to name names on a public forum but I'll send youi a private message. Where do you have horses in St. Charles?? Clydesdales much less! I love clydesdales. My first leased horse was a clydesdale :)
My new farrier is awesome I'm in love. I have pictures on my camera to upload but right now we're at the store.. Should have them up in about an hour. I even got an invoice. Ooo fancy. I think I made him happy, called him for my horse and he ended up doing 4 others too.
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#39 · (Edited)
Here are the pictures. Sorry the before ones are crummy :/ I got there only a few minutes before the farrier.
Before:




After:

Back:





Back Right:

Back Left:

Front:
He said that HIS front right(front left in this picture) the outside slopes at an angle more than it should and will be 2-3 trimmings before that is corrected.



Front right:
 
#41 ·
I love my natural barefoot trimmer. All my horses are barefoot and they all are 100% better for it. My OTTB hooves were terrible when I got her, now solid and great. The other TB had cracks running up and down all over, now solid black hooves anyone could envy. I'm a big fan of barefoot. Your guy looks great and I won't be surprised if before you know it he's solid and sound. For the thrush here is a simple recipie my trimmer recommended. Get a small spray bottle and fill mainly with apple cider vineger (is that spelled right?) and add about a teaspoon of tea tree oil. It works absolutly great. Just spray on every day for awhile and you'll be surprised at how quickly it goes away.
 
#47 ·
I'm a barefoot guru too, actually my farm is all natural - holisitic haha.
If it were me trimming I would've rounded the wall a little more but where his feet began its probably best to make the step gradually. His feet look much better already! And yes, mix apple cider vinegar with a tiny bit (1/3-1/4) of water. Tea tree oil will make a big improvement but it's less expensive. Apple cider helps strengthen the whole hoof so dont feel obliged to just keep it on the frog. You can also safely mix it in with their food. :)
 
#45 ·
Thanks so much everyone!! I'm so happy I made the switch! He explained everything so perfectly. I asked a question and he went above and beyond explaining. He cleaned off my old shoes so I could keep them. He showed me the shoes he would use and how he would set them if I wanted shoes. Told me his hooves were nice and healthy, don't need any dressings. Reccomended thrush buster for his frog and the slight white line on his front right. I'm VERY pleased. He already set up my next appointment for July 30th but to call if I had any questions. He had him done in about 35 minutes which must be a HUGE relief to Gunnar... The last time he was trimmed he was crosstied for no joke 2 hours and 15 minutes. I'm so happy to be saving $20 and getting a much much better service.I'll be sure to post pictures as they grow out and get trims.
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#46 ·
I'd also like to say I had NO idea that's how a hoof should look. It's like he's wearing pony shape-ups. But I guess there are just a lot of shody farriers and they've all been at my barn. Of the uhh,5 farriers who's work I've seen.. Nobody has trimmed the toe the way this guy does. Makes total sense. He said as long as we don't jump more than a foot and a half about 2 times a week he can stay barefoot :)
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#50 ·
Thanks everyone! You've confirmed to me that I did the right thing and found a good trimmer. I'm letting him take it easy for about a week just in case there's any soreness. I plan to ride on wednesday :) I'm really eager to see how it affects his riding. I'll keep a photo journal for sure!
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#51 ·
Hi,

Just going off the pics, which you must appreciate can be misleading, so this is more food for thought, rather than advice/judgements...

Based on how long but flat soled the hoof capsule appeared in the before pix, it is possible the trimmer may have shortened the toe too much. It appears he may have trimmed into the live sole & shortened the hoof capsule from the ground surface, which is generally not a good idea.

As a rule I do very little paring of frog or sole material at all, but considering the thrushy frogs & obviously muddy environment, I'd get rid of the other flaps, dags, 'verandahs' on the frogs. I'd also consider opening up the central sulcii a bit. I'd be soaking or scrubbing his feet with ACV or such regularly.

It's impossible to tell balance from these pix, given where the feet came from & possible body/confo issues, but I'd be carefully considering if that hoof balance is good for him. Eg. it appears his walls may be longer laterally(outsides) on all his feet.

His heels still appear to be high, but considering how long they were, they are probably not too high for now. I'd probably just be inclined to bevel the heel buttresses, so he has a better landing platform. I would also make sure the extra wall height at the heels wasn't carried through the quarters. They look like they could possibly be scooped a bit.

The trimmer has done a bit of a mustang roll at the tip of the toes(seems squared them a bit too), but has not done the rest of the feet for some reason. Especially the more flared outsides of his feet rolling. I'd also personally round off the toe rolls more, rather than leaving it a sharp angle, but that bit's mainly aesthetics.

I think it's so important for people to educate themselves on hoof care & health, not only to have a better idea of the quality of 'experts' you employ & what principles should be followed, but because a lot of the factors are your responsibility as owner. Eg. diet, environment, etc. hoofrehab.com & barehoofcare.com are 2 of many good sites to start with.
 
#52 ·
Thanks so much. You've been really helpful through my hoof dramas with him. I have a question to make sure I understand d completely. Your saying his hoofwall should be rolled all the way around not just the toe? Just trying to clarify so I know what to ask my trimmer.
And everyone, he comes out tomorrow to do a tidying up. Gunnars feet have taken off and his bars are looking like they're trying to roll over -_- so he comes out tomorrow's night at 7 to trim him up :) ill post before and after
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#53 ·
I have a question to make sure I understand d completely. Your saying his hoofwall should be rolled all the way around not just the toe? Just trying to clarify so I know what to ask my trimmer.
Yes, horses don't just travel in a straight line, on level ground, so the toe is not the only point of breakover, or area that can chip & crack due to leverage. Generally it seems the toe may need more of a roll than the rest - esp if stretched forward - but the entire outside wall should be rolled IMO.
 
#55 ·
Thanks. I'll definetely bring that up with him. What I like about this Guy is he answers my questions very thouroughly. I'll report back with his answer.
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Yep, that's helpful. And if he can walk the walk as well, even better! Do your homework, so you can come back to him with some sound reasons for your suggestions too.
 
#56 ·
I talked with the farrier and he said he only did the roll in the front because he automatically installs the roll he needs around which he pointed out and yea there is a bit of a roll all the way around. Not as pronounced but there all the same. He "grooved" the quarters a little to help with chipping so they arent touching the ground, left the front a little long because he's tender on gravel. We've discovered he's a little club footed in the front right :/ measures at 56 degrees the left is 53. He said enough to be almost grade 1. Proper matinence and he will be fine no soundness issues. I showed him pictures of his feet when he was being done by the old farrier and he said it's something he's had for a long time now so it shouldnt change. Minimal white line, he pointed out one spot to really target and the rest he said is normal amounts nothing to be worried about. Also he has a false sole in his hind feet. He explained it to me and wow, thats wierd. He's going to be bringing me a catalog when he comes out on the 6th to do someone elses horse and is circling some tools to invest in. Then when he comes out on the 30th to do another trim he's going to show me how to use them properly to help keep Gunnar in check. In the hind his sole grows faster than the wall so he's going to show me how to properly keep it trimmed as well as shaping up the wall to avoid cracks.
Nowfor the pictures.
Sorry, it was an incredibly bright day and hard to see if I got good pictures on the camera.

Fronts,


Backs,

Front Right

Back right

Back Left

Front left


AFTER
Backs

Front left

Back left

Back right

Front right


I don't know how I forgot to take front pictures after -_- I'll get some tomorrow.
What does everyone think? He's looking better from when he had shoes?
 
#57 ·
Glad you said you forgot to get front 'after' shots, because those front sole shots in the 'after' section would be remarkably messy if that were finished!<G> I gather then they're there to show the pared sole then? There looks to be evidence of rasping too, so was this half way thru his job or something?

I talked with the farrier and he said he only did the roll in the front because he automatically installs the roll he needs around which he pointed out and yea there is a bit of a roll
'Bit' may be the operative word. I don't see it in the pics, tho again, it may be just the pics. He's certainly chipped away some, due to the lack of it tho. Given the stretching in front left, I'd be doing a fair bit more there at least, and given the club foot(so more load on toe), I'd ensure that was well rolled.

He "grooved" the quarters a little to help with chipping so they arent touching the ground, left the front a little long because he's tender on gravel. We've discovered he's a little club footed in the front right :/
I'm guessing 'grooved' means he took the quarters back a bit more from the ground surface, in relation to the level from toe to heel? Generally called 'scooping'. In what manner did he leave the fronts 'long'? From the straight-on angle, can't really tell clearly, but it appears as it did in your earlier pics, that he has very little depth to the toe sole - looks quite flat. As there is also the separation of front left at least, I'd generally be inclined to back up/roll it right around, to avoid leaving pressure on already weak walls. Would also use boots or such on gravel or where needed for his comfort. That 1st pic, assuming it's an accurate idea of how he stands on gravel at least, together with the sole pics gives me the idea it's his heels that may be the bigger problem re tenderness.

Re club foot, this may be just natural for him, so wouldn't necessarily consider changing it or worry about it as such, but just keep tabs on it & also keep in mind that laminitis/rotation and a weaker heel is common in club feet, so he may need more upkeep, protection/support for this foot than the other, now or at some point down the track.

In the hind his sole grows faster than the wall so he's going to show me how to properly keep it trimmed as well as shaping up the wall to avoid cracks.
Keeping the walls rolled in between trims is a very good idea IMO. Paring sole, esp if you don't *know* precisely what's going on underneath it is not IMO. 'False sole' is just a term for dead but retained sole. It can need to be exfoliated, or it may be helpful to leave it there. It can be due to sole bruising/abscesses & the likes, or it can be due just to the environment. IMO it is *generally* best left alone and even when it may be a good idea to remove it, it is not generally helpful or necessary to do it regularly.

Now for the pics... I've drawn on a few of yours, to show you what I may do differently... I've run out of time for now, so I'll get back to it later. But again, I remind you that this is just my opinion, based on but a few pics, so of course keep that in mind & don't just take my word for anything without really looking into it, any more than you should just take this farrier's word for it blindly.
 
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