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Improvement Timeline?

2K views 18 replies 7 participants last post by  livelovelaughride 
#1 · (Edited)
My horse had seen my previous farrier for 2 years and was always sound.
With moving to a new barn, I am using that barn's farriers. So he has been shod by them since last Nov. 12.

In the last month my horse has been less than sound in the fore, and my vet has determined (after a number of blocks, flexions, etc and fluroscopes) that the front hoof angles have been the issue. When my horse trots his RF pastern angle does not drop as much as the left. The LF heel seems or is underrun. The RF pastern angle is straighter. My vet is going to speak to my farriers and hopefully they will be on board.

This lameness issue took a while to appear. How long might it take to get back to him being sound?
Bottom pics #3 is RF and #4 is LF
 

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#2 ·
Hi/lo syndrome may be normal for the horse. One will always grow upright and one will always try to grow longer toe and forward heel. If the current farrier followed his anatomy, he may be right. If the past farrier tried to make the hooves look the same, he may have been thinking that this was right, but it wasn't. The LF is underrun, which may take a while to improve, then maintenance is the key.

I'm going by the pictures now. Is the low foot hanging over the shoe on the sides? It should not be. The shoes look short to me and should be a bit longer in the back for more support . Are his shoes kinda thick? The pastern is not going to bend as much because the "high" foot is like that probably because the tendons are tighter.
Like in my horse the run forward hoof is the challenge . You have to continuously keep that toe back and get back the heels as much as the horse's hoof angle will allow.

The horse's situation involves maintenance of each hoof individually, not try to make them look the same. Then use an exercise routine to help his balance-Others can recommend what exercises.

The past farrier may have been trying to increase the angle of the LF and all he got was a foot that was longer toed and underrun. Increasing the angle is slow work to not let the hoof run forward while doing so.

It looks like the current farrier may be working on improving the balance. Call him and tell him that the horse seems unbalanced. He may be able to do more.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for your comments. I posted these pics of him with 7 week old shoes and just today he was re shod . I'm going to start paying more attention to angles and take pics over the next few months. Usually we are at 6 week intervals. My current farrier would like better digital images so he can see for himself what the vet is alluding to.

So, that's my next step.
 
#4 ·
LF is way out of hand. Im afraid if your farrier cant see it, they are not trained in a way that knows how to deal with this issue.

Google ELPO hoof mapping. That foot 100% has WAY more toe than heel. A no no. Mapping is a good way to figure out where breakover should be.
 
#7 ·
NP. This is 100% a farrier induced problem however. Make no mistake. If this one cant fix this, look for someone who is familiar and preferably certified with ELPO and will get this foot proportionate again and properly angled.
 
#8 ·
Yes Karen, the LF is bullnosing. The laminae is pulling away from the hoof wall which 100% tells you that this hoof is not how it should be. Long toes + underrun heels can result in the coffin bone rotating. Yes, it will take a long time to fix. Around 6-11 months of staying on top of trimming to get a new hoof to grow out. That is the only way for the laminae to be tight with the hoof wall again, it has to be grown out that way. I would definitely get radiographs done to see where his coffin bone is. And I would definitely be interested in seeing those radiographs. :wink:

I had the same problem with my yearling in January(I know, bad horse mommy. After him almost dying his feet took a back seat for a couple months.) He had long toes, underrun heels, and the bullnosing. He had a negative PA(the angle of the coffin bone) on all four feet. Meaning, the coffin bone was tipping upwards. I have him scheduled to get updated radiographs of his feet next Saturday and I am oh so excited to see how his feet are looking now.
 
#9 ·
A competent farrier can have the internal angles and breakover back where they belong in a trim or two. This is what ELPO is all about. You can see videos from Gene Ovenik (sorry, I cant spell his last name) for get more info on proper hoof form and how they fix it. The wall will take longer but with modern shoeing methods, this can be fixed quickly and the horse should go sound in a week or two unless there is tendon damage present somewhere. NPA is hard on the leg.
 
#10 ·
Oh yeah, fixing the angles themselves could be done in a couple trims. I was referencing the bulging on the hoof wall. Backing up that toe and getting the heel where it needs to be should be easy peasy.
 
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#11 ·
Shod yesterday, head nodding today in trot.

One of my barn mates is telling me what a good mom I am, spending so much money trying to locate his lameness to fix.

I'm going to try another vet who is a specialist in lameness (not from my area and he has really up to date equipment.) Really, he is in such nice condition and so nice a horse, it would be so wrong to not do that!
 

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#12 ·
LF heel is still crushed and the toe is still too long. Dont misunderstand me, not too long from the bottom, from the front. breakover. He may indeed want to be high low, but that is a mismanaged foot. I dont think this farrier can see it.
 
#13 ·
Still seems to have long toe/crushed heel. Is he landing toe first? Tripping/dragging on that foot?

Also, what is his diet and turnout like? He looks quite chunky. Getting some excess weight off of him can help prevent nutrition-related laminitis.
 
#15 ·
I personally think his weight looks ideal looking at the picts above and at the new ones. No cresty neck, no apparent fatty pockets on his rump or girthline. I think the sun is making him look a tad fat in the lower pictures. He looks like a solid 5/6 to me which is great for a TB type.
 
#16 ·
Well, got my appointment on Thursday for a digital xray. There are no ELPO in my province who are farriers, just one trimmer. It looks like xray is not a real diagnostic for navicular according to my reading but I hope they will shed some light and assist for the next farriers.

Looking at his breakover in my lesson yesterday, my coach was pointing out where each foot's breakover was. The left foot breakover was behind the girth on a vertical line. The right was infront of the vertical angle of the girth. Poor guy.
 
#17 ·
IMO, it would be worth it to get the trimmer out who knows hoof mapping. If the farrier doesn't know about mapping then you won't achieve the needed results. I did pretty good maintaining hooves with a standard barefoot trim, but once I learned hoof mapping, (thanks again trinity), it literally shook my view on what I was doing. The results I see now are night and day. And it is also my opinion that you will achieve results quicker if you do this without shoes. The hoof is going to change shape right before your eyes......if you observe it long enough.:lol:

Also it is another opinion of mine that the trim needs to be maintained frequently.....at least weekly IMO, while the hoof is moving back into it's proper position to achieve quicker results.
 
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#18 ·
I had the sme experiance when I was turned on to the ELPO ideas after doing Ramey type methods for years. Blew my mind how simple it was and things i just never could get ahead with changed almost overnight with one mapped toe trim.
 
#19 ·
An update!

I got digital xrays of my horse's front feet and the report of the vet.
The toes are too long, the left heel needs to be supported better with new wedge shoes, the shoes were too small, the widest part of the shoe was not supportive enough at the frog where it was widest, and the shoe is placed too far forward.

As well, I got my original farrier to come out and consult today. I was overjoyed when he said he would take us as clients again, as he has moved closer to our neighborhood. He pretty much said the shoes were not supporting my horse properly, making him walk on his toes because the heels were not supported well. He mentioned that my horse had a tendency for underrun heels, but that he was always able to manage him without wedge shoes. And he took the time to see my horse move - the other farrier did not do this when I told him my horse was getting gimpy. And he also took the time to show me what was happening to my horse's hoof and how and why he was moving the way he is. I was so relieved and gave my unsuspecting farrier a bear hug. I hope we will soon be back on track again. Happy, happy!
 
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