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Just went barefoot- Now chipping.

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    11-15-2011, 10:52 AM
  #21
Banned
When we bought our OTTB, they pulled his shoes before they delivered him (not sure why) and did so in the middle of the winter.

You can imagine the pain he was in walking shoeless through the snow and ice.

We called our farrier in as he was noticeably lame....he examined him and proclaimed him to have the most amazing hooves he's ever seen on a TB and the lameness was likely due to having his shoes removed ...

His advice was to let him go barefoot and that he would toughen up. He said that it may take months....but that he felt this horse was a good candidate to go shoeless.

He said he could shoe him and he'd be as good as new, or we could let him go barefoot and wait for his hooves to adjust. His opinion was that we should let him stay shoeless. So we did.

For months he limped around, and we questioned whether we'd made the right decision....the snows and ice melted and the spring rains came and he slowly limped less and less....

Now he has nice tough, thick walled hooves.....

My point is, if you CAN go shoeless, then tough it out and wait for the hooves to adjust. What does your farrier say? Is the horse a good candidate for going shoeless? Some horses just do better with shoes.... all of the TBs at a TB farm we used to board at were all shoeless...and all but one did great.

Our farrier says good hooves are 99% genetic, you either got them or you don't.....

Both our horses get a hoof supplement however, but not for their hooves technically as both have fantastic hooves, I feed it to them for their coat condition mainly.

We use Platform Hoof....and whether it's genetics like our farrier says or if this stuff is really working, I dunno...but both horses have amazing hooves.
     
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    11-15-2011, 06:39 PM
  #22
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauseant    
For months he limped around, and we questioned whether we'd made the right decision....the snows and ice melted and the spring rains came and he slowly limped less and less....
This is an attitude/approach I seriously disagree with. For one, it's unpleasant or downright painful(as it sounds in this case) for the poor horse to be subjected to, which IMO is cruel & avoidable. Also if they're sore, there's a fair chance they're not going to get enough exercise & also will be using their poor feet wrongly, so may not build strength & can do further or other damage. Weak feet need protecting IMO, not that that necessarily means conventional shoeing is best tho. Doesn't sound like your poor horse had such fantastic hooves at all & perhaps luck had a lot to do with him coming good in the end.

Quote:
Our farrier says good hooves are 99% genetic, you either got them or you don't.....
While there are most definitely genetic factors involved, the more I've learned, the more convinced I've become that it is very much 'deed over breed', 'nurture over nature', so to speak. It is diet, environment & management that I believe play the major roles in hoof health & soundness, far more than genetics. IOW, 'good' feet are made, rather than bred. Your story seems to show this, assuming he is now truly sound & has tough feet. He's at least 'got them' now a lot more than he did(n't) on arrival & I'm betting his genetics haven't changed.

While I'm all for shoeless, that's not to say I think bare is necessarily best(as in this sort of eg) & it's important for people to educate themselves, so they understand the relevant principles & factors they need to take responsibility for not just trust blindly to someone's opinion, especially if it includes causing your horse months(days is bad enough) of avoidable lameness.
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    11-15-2011, 08:47 PM
  #23
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauseant    
For months he limped around, and we questioned whether we'd made the right decision....the snows and ice melted and the spring rains came and he slowly limped less and less....
This is terrible advise, let the horse limp around till his feet toughen up, which in your case too months! Why didn't you put boots on him so offer him some protection while his feet toughened up?
I had my TB's shoes pulled the day after I got her and guess what, she NEVER took a lame step. I can't see how your farrier said his feet were fantastic with him being so lame? The only time my TB was ever sore was on rocks and that wasn't until this crappy farrier at the boarding barn I moved her to trimmed her. After that I got a barefoot trimmer and got her fitted for boots so she could be 100% comfortable while her feet recovered. Funny thing is how I've heard numerous people who use this farrier say how "milford is the best farrier" I can't see how they can be so blind to wonky feet and constantly off horses

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
This is an attitude/approach I seriously disagree with. For one, it's unpleasant or downright painful(as it sounds in this case) for the poor horse to be subjected to, which IMO is cruel & avoidable. Also if they're sore, there's a fair chance they're not going to get enough exercise & also will be using their poor feet wrongly, so may not build strength & can do further or other damage. Weak feet need protecting IMO, not that that necessarily means conventional shoeing is best tho. Doesn't sound like your poor horse had such fantastic hooves at all & perhaps luck had a lot to do with him coming good in the end.



While there are most definitely genetic factors involved, the more I've learned, the more convinced I've become that it is very much 'deed over breed', 'nurture over nature', so to speak. It is diet, environment & management that I believe play the major roles in hoof health & soundness, far more than genetics. IOW, 'good' feet are made, rather than bred. Your story seems to show this, assuming he is now truly sound & has tough feet. He's at least 'got them' now a lot more than he did(n't) on arrival & I'm betting his genetics haven't changed.

While I'm all for shoeless, that's not to say I think bare is necessarily best(as in this sort of eg) & it's important for people to educate themselves, so they understand the relevant principles & factors they need to take responsibility for not just trust blindly to someone's opinion, especially if it includes causing your horse months(days is bad enough) of avoidable lameness.
Just wanted to say that as usual, I agree with you. I'm meaning to get new pics of my mares hooves for you to critique the trim
     
    11-15-2011, 08:54 PM
  #24
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel1786    
I can't see how they can be so blind to wonky feet and constantly off horses
Ignorance is bliss... at least for the owner! When stuff doesn't work, it's just an 'inexplicable'(probably incureable) lameness 'out of the blue' or due to bad genetics.
     
    11-15-2011, 08:56 PM
  #25
Trained
Gotta say I'm not amused by the "let them limp around until they're okay" part either. I also recently pulled hind shoes from my TB. As soon as I realized he was having pain and problems moving around, I put boots on him to help him get over the hump. I cannot imagine letting a creature I care about so much walk around in pain. It's hard enough having to test him on each surface everyday to see which ones he's still ouchy on. Common sense needs to come into play here.
     
    11-15-2011, 10:34 PM
  #26
Foal
I've just acquired a horse, but in the months leading up to getting her I did an awful lot of reading on barefoot trimming. Naturally barefoot is definitely different than traditional pasture or field trim. I would highly recommend finding a natural barefoot trimmer for your horse. Start by doing your research, then ask potential trimmers lots of questions. Most horses can go barefoot with the help of knowledgeable trimmers and owners. There is usually a transition period of up to a year or more, and this is where boots come in if your horse is sore during transition. I'll include a couple of links to get you started.

This first one is a really good, easy to understand page when just getting started reading about it.
Bare Foot Horse

This next one is far more in-depth, and you begin to realize how much there is to know about that one (times four) small part of the horse there is to know. It can be overwhelming, but Pete Ramey is a leader in this field.
Pete Ramey hoof care laminitis founder horse navicular disease thrush equine foot development farrier

I hope you can find someone to help you go barefoot successfully!
     
    11-16-2011, 07:31 AM
  #27
Banned
Clearing up a few details:

Apparently, he was taking missteps here and there when trotting....not totally limping about. He was not dead lame at that point, and still able to be ridden.....well, that is until the BO put him in the small, rocky paddock with barbed wire fencing....but that is another story. There were sharp jagged rocks in this small paddock he shared with two other horses....suddenly he came up lame, not just missteps while trotting out. Complained to BO about size and condition of paddock, he refused to move him. Because the indoor was also rocks, not sand or gravel, we didn't ride him in there. Actually, when the snows came, he did better....as it covered some of the rocks in his paddock...but not all. Some jutted out of the ground and were quite sharp.

It was the farriers opinion that the paddock conditions, while not bothering the other two horses that we know of, were bothering him because they were shod while he had recently had his pulled.

His shoes were pulled in February, he was put into the rocky paddock about 2 weeks later, and after the april rains came....he was moved to an actual field without rocks and by the time we moved him in late May, he was perfectly normal.

So, no he did not limp about for months. Originally, after the shoe removal he was rideable, but was taking missteps here and there and not with the same leg and not in any particular pattern. The indoor was rocks (not gravel or crushed stone, rocks. Of various sizes] for some reason and the farrier said he seemed to be taking missteps due to that. After being put in the small rocky paddock though, he seemed to get worse for a time, not to mention cutting himself on the barbed wire'........

This was almost two years ago, and in that time, our boy hasn't been lame or even gimpy once. And if anyone has seen my videos of him running, you all know, he's feeling fine and happy to be barefoot.

Also FYI, after moving him we had to get another farrier as we were very far away and this farrier also pronounced our OTTBs hooves as amazing and even extraordinary. The hooves never seemed to be the problem, rather the timing of the shoe removal and the horrible conditions at this facility. I don't know how the other horses were affected, if at all.....they were all trail horses and were all shod. Suppose that made a difference
In their ability to do well on the rocks.....who knows.

the farrier did say, however, that transitioning from shod to barefoot can take months and even up to a year in some horses, as tsaraph just mentioned above. Lucky for us, moving him to another facility and him having fantastic hooves made the transition easier for him.....he was completely sound within four months...and has stayed that way for the last two years.....

Just wanted to add some details to clear up some misconceptions.
     
    11-16-2011, 07:54 AM
  #28
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaraph    
I've just acquired a horse, but in the months leading up to getting her I did an awful lot of reading on barefoot trimming. Naturally barefoot is definitely different than traditional pasture or field trim.
It is sad to see this belief in today's horse world. I mean that in the kindest of ways

Evidently there aren't too many folks around that fall into my category, which is:

1 Headed for 65 years old.
2. We farmed with horses until I was 4.
3. My granddad raised Welsh/Morgan crosses so I started breaking horses (well big ponies) when I was 12.

3.1 Granddad did all his own trimming. My 12th Christmas present from him was a set of trimming tools and all the on-going lessons I needed.

4. I will never have all the answers but I have only been horse-less one year of my entire life and have learned/seen quite a bit in that span of time

The point is:

"The Traditional Pasture Trim" is not Traditional and like the Fiber 1 commercial says: for folks to think that it is "makes me--------sad"

Here's the link to my long and drawn out comment in the "Gaited Horse Section".

Posts 7, 8, & 9 is where it all starts.

having hoof problems

I do not want to set off a firestorm of arguments, I just want folks to understand that I have been around long enough, trimming my own horses, to know that this "New" Natural Trimming method is far from new.

It has been re-vitalized and upgraded, it isn't new but I have learned from it. I have a wonderful gal on-line that evaluates what I do on my horses that need specialized work.

As I commented in the link above, it's the Pasture Trim that's new because "Time is Money" to a farrier. All he wants to do is get those shoes pulled, slap a half-a***d trim on the horse to go out to pasture for the winter, and get on to the next customer. If he's lucky he can make a couple hundred dollars that day (with hardly any effort) and be home by 3:30 to do whatever it is he needs to do (or not) at his own house.

I probably shouldn't speak up but it is frustrating to know that good-intentioned folks honestly believe the Natural Trim is the new thing.

I was being taught those principles way back in 1960 by someone that was 60-some years old himself

I could take this one step further and say Natural Horsemanship is nothing new either -- I learned those methods from the same great man. I just didn't learn them in the way they're being taught today -- carrot sticks were unheard of and nobody we knew had an arena
loosie likes this.
     
    11-16-2011, 01:36 PM
  #29
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinthewalk    

I just want folks to understand that I have been around long enough, trimming my own horses, to know that this "New" Natural Trimming method is far from new.
Thanks for your comments. And really, I'm not surprised at all by this.

When I said "traditional pasture trim," I was referring to what farriers typically do to pull the shoes and get out on pasture as contrasted by the natural hoof trimming that strives to give a horse the hooves he was created to walk and work with. But I can see that natural trimming might be just as "traditional" as the common pasture trim. I'm glad natural trimming is making a come-back
     
    11-16-2011, 07:21 PM
  #30
Foal
Wow, so many more replies on this since I last read it. Havent had the time to come on here unfortunately.
Merlin's feet actually look better now than when I took the photos because of them 'trimming themselves' so to speak.
The farrier is due out tomorrow, yay!
@loosie, I havent been riding him at all due to a laceration on his pastern that turned in to proud flesh >.<
He isnt lame at all, but when they first got trimmed he stepped gingerly over a small rocky patch that is up near the gate to where I feed him. This doesnt bother him anymore, and he runs up the hill every time its time to feed.
Speaking of his feed- He is getting CarpenterGold Copra Meal and horse and pony pellets - along with a bit of chaff. IMO, copra does wonders for a horses hooves...and coat...and weight :P
Ill update tomorrow to what the farrier says :)
     

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