Just went semi shoeless - have questions - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sarahver View Post
Actually I pretty much left her to her own devices in the pasture, only bringing her out to put more ointment on her soles. Her pasture is a mix of hard/soft ground so I just allowed her to choose her own surface as she saw fit. When I rode her for the first time I chose a relatively flat grassy area for the first week, second week we were back in the arena no problems
Yeah, I wanted to let the paddock do the work, but we had a freak early snowstorm right before I pulled them, and now all the melted snow has made it soup. He hates standing water, so he's not moving around at all in the paddock unless there is food involved. Luckily I'm on vacation for the next week, so I'll have plenty of time to keep him moving.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #12 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
I wouldn't be putting oil, turps or such on his feet. They don't need to be harder so much as grow thicker, to provide the support & protection needed. Therefore I would be thinking about 'toughening up & 'adjusting' for now, until they can become healthier first.
Makes sense. Thicker is not necessarily better. Got it. Thanks.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #13 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 08:58 PM
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Haha, Loosie I really don't want to quibble details with you but unless the sand arena is perfectly dragged and 100% flat then it will be uneven in parts (rocks or not) so yes, there will be pressure points created

ETA: I guess I just quibbled regardless (!)

All horses deserve, at least once in their lives, to be loved by a little girl.

Last edited by sarahver; 11-03-2011 at 09:00 PM.
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post #14 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 08:58 PM
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Really laminitis? Yes horses with laminitis have sore feet but that doesn't mean every horse with sore feet has laminitis. Sarahver is right, he just had his shoes pulled, he likes the hard surfaces because it loads his weight on the hoof wall and not on the frog and sole. It'll take some time for those structures to strengthen and harden.
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post #15 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck View Post
Makes sense. Thicker is not necessarily better. Got it. Thanks.
I said they do need to get thicker.

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Yes horses with laminitis have sore feet but that doesn't mean every horse with sore feet has laminitis.
I never said otherwise. Never said this horse does. I don't get why you are ridiculing the possibility with so little info tho?
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post #16 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
I said they do need to get thicker.


Yep, meant to say harder isn't better. 2 hours from vacation. Brain starting to shut off...

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #17 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 09:29 PM
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Yep, meant to say harder isn't better. 2 hours from vacation. Brain starting to shut off...
Ha ha!
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post #18 of 65 Old 11-03-2011, 11:04 PM
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The reason I so easily dismiss the idea of laminitis is a horse with laminitis would rather load it's sole and frog in a soft surface to better distribute weight bearing load, rather than a hard flat surface were it's weight is only on the hoof wall which is connected to the coffin bone by the laminae.
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post #19 of 65 Old 11-04-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck View Post
I just pulled my TB's hind shoes a few days ago.
Why was he shod on the hinds? If an owner cannot answer that question definitively, they are ill equipped to make the decision of shod versus barefoot.

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The first few days he just looked more confused than anything.
Anthropomorphism is a poverty of clinical diagnostics.

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He's not lame exactly but not sure how to walk either.
Horses are either lame or they are not. Your horse has known how to walk since the first few minutes after birth.

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I'm guessing he's just wondering what all that feeling is down there, probably some pins and needles stuff too.
Someone told you that horseshoes restrict/hinder nerve sensation in a horses foot, didn't they?

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I've been walking him of varied surfaces to see what he's comfortable with. To my dismay, he likes the hard pavement of the driveway and barn aisle best, followed by the hard dirt walkway to the paddock, is very tentative about the indoor sand arena and hates his muddy paddock.
This is key information and provides the most likely answer. It also serves as a great example for a lesson in equine mechanical anatomy.

Quote:
I'm thinking it's more due to how the surfaces feel more than anything, but I'm just surprised that he likes the hard stuff.
Stop listening to the barefoot brigade nonsense and consider the bio-mechanics involved. To wit....

When palmar/plantar ventral angle is increased, what primary soft tissue support structures are subject to increased load?

When palmar/plantar ventral angle is decreased, what primary soft tissue support structures are subject to increased load?

What effect does footing (hard/soft) have on the palmar/plantar angle?

Quote:
I expected some degree of lameness on hard/not soft, but got the other way around. Has anyone who's gone shoeless experienced this?
It's not about shod versus shoeless. It's about mechanical load on support structures and how they are balanced in the equine distal limb.

Yes, I know I'm being a bit of a putz by not just giving you the answer but this stuff is important. It's why the average horse owner shouldn't just make a shod/barefoot decision based on "Let's try it and see", "I read on a barefoot website that it's natural" or "It will save me a few bucks every six weeks".

I'll give you three hints to the three bold-faced questions above.

Horses are designed/adapted for life in a semi-arid environment. Changes in that environment alter the mechanical efficiency of the equine distal limb.

A wedged, open heeled, roller motion shoe is often used to address the needs of a horse diagnosed with navicular disease. Think about why the shoe design benefits those horses.

A flat barshoe includes two mechanical properties that benefit some horses. Caudal float and distribution of pressure over a larger surface area.

Horses need what they need and not all are good candidates for a barefoot management protocol.

Your horse is demonstrating his difficulty in the only way he can. Are you "listening" or will you continue to pursue some idealistic barefoot dogma?

Cheers,
Mark
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post #20 of 65 Old 11-04-2011, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Horseman56 View Post
Anthropomorphism is a poverty of clinical diagnostics.
I really like this^^

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