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Laminitis MUCH worse after trim

This is a discussion on Laminitis MUCH worse after trim within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        04-16-2013, 10:00 PM
      #61
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
    But all they need to understand is soft sole pressure is good, hard, non-conforming sole pressure is bad.
    Yes, definitely agree. I thought you were saying the sole had to be relieved from any pressure.

    Quote:
    Weakened walls? It's weakened laminae that I see allowing all the damage.
    Yeah, I meant the same. Loading walls further strains the already weakened wall *attachment*.

    Quote:
    i don't believe for a second sole support loke boots or pads will stop p3's fall. That's going to happen whether there's something on the bottom of the hoof or not.
    I do believe pads or conforming footing are only part of the equation - you also have to address the other causes & effects too - but IME I do absolutely believe support under the foot definitely helps prevent and correct descent. It's basic physics for a start. I've (been lucky enough) to see many egs, including a number of solar penetrations which have been rehabbed(meaning to be at least paddock sound if not back in work, not just alive but still suffering). Many of these have come from long term 'corrective' shoeing which has failed to address the descent - the loaded hoofwall has no meaningful lamellar attachement, nothing supporting underneath, so everything continues to 'sink' inside it. Not saying it's not treatable with shoes, just that I haven't seen it done. Also heard numerous conventional 'experts' saying 'distal descent', certain degrees of 'rotation' & P3 penetration are incurable, when I know that's not the case.
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        04-16-2013, 10:38 PM
      #62
    Yearling
    Yeah id say 99 percent of hot footed horses I've seen are curable and are cured and the rest could probly be cured but folks wont spend the money.

    Funny how different approaches can work, even if they're from different ends of the spectrum. I think it's because Mother Nature does so much of the healing. In most cases if I was to just help Mother Nature by cutting the heels down in order to get bones aligned, and nothing else , the horse would still do ok.

    Loosie what do you think the most important thing is that Mother Nature does for the horse when laminitis happens? I'm not being smart aleck I'm curious to what you think and I'll tell you what I think
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        04-17-2013, 12:50 AM
      #63
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
    Yeah id say 99 percent of hot footed horses I've seen are curable
    What do you mean 'hot footed'? Inflamed/acute laminitis without mechanical changes? I was talking about chronic mechanics such as high degrees of rotation, penetration, etc, as this seems to be still on the 'can't fix' list.

    Quote:
    I think it's because Mother Nature does so much of the healing.
    & adapting. Amazing really.

    Quote:
    Loosie what do you think the most important thing is that Mother Nature does for the horse when laminitis happens?
    Good question! I'm tempted to just say 'adapt' but I'll have to think about that one & get back to you. Again, are we talking chronic or acute?
         
        04-17-2013, 05:44 AM
      #64
    Weanling
    So one of the farriers, and also the BO, were talking about corrective shoeing once the acutely painful stage is over. The BO had one of her laminitic horses shod with a regular horseshoe turned backwards (for heel support, and I believe to keep any pressure at all off the toe wall), or apparently the other choice is a bar shoe.
    I understand the heel support part, but what exactly does a bar shoe do? How is it different from a shoe that's open in the back? What's the use of the different bar shapes (shaped like the frog vs just straight or slightly curved)? Wouldn't using a bar shoe mean loading the walls and relieving the sole again?
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        04-17-2013, 06:34 AM
      #65
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Regula    
    Wouldn't using a bar shoe mean loading the walls and relieving the sole again?
    Yes, exactly. And the bar bit will put pressure on the frog, but it depends how it's done as to how much, and it's also rigid, unyielding pressure, which I don't believe is helpful.
         
        04-17-2013, 09:54 AM
      #66
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by loosie    
    What do you mean 'hot footed'? Inflamed/acute laminitis without mechanical changes? I was talking about chronic mechanics such as high degrees of rotation, penetration, etc, as this seems to be still on the 'can't fix' list.



    & adapting. Amazing really.



    Good question! I'm tempted to just say 'adapt' but I'll have to think about that one & get back to you. Again, are we talking chronic or acute?

    By "hot footed" I mean any and all degrees of founder. I think it's regional slang term. We've always used that term, my dad or grandpa probly made it up.
    It just refers to a fever and subsequent blood supply loss to the hooves.

    In the question about mother nature's most beneficial healing adaptation I was referring to any form of founder. Chronic, whatever label you choose. What does the horse's body do that speeds up and helps the healing process?
         
        04-17-2013, 10:32 AM
      #67
    Trained
    I was assuming that you were referring to the the hoof being palpably hot to the touch due to severe inflammation when you said "hot footed".
         
        04-17-2013, 11:17 AM
      #68
    Yearling
    Yes that's right. Circulation restriction resulting in fever- hot- footed
         
        04-20-2013, 02:45 AM
      #69
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
    By "hot footed" I mean any and all degrees of founder.
    So you reckon 99% + the rest, of anything, including major rotation, sinking & penetration are curable? Awesome! I'd love to know what you're doing differently to the norm, as it seems that the 'conventional' mob still tend to hold that these types of degree aren't curable at all. I thought it was just us 'way out hippies' that were performing this supposed hoodoo& that it is the paradigm of loading hoof walls/unloading base of the foot that is 'the' difference. I'd love to learn more about why this may not be the case, as you're obviously a 'load the walls' person.

    Quote:
    In the question about mother nature's most beneficial healing adaptation I was referring to any form of founder. Chronic, whatever label you choose. What does the horse's body do that speeds up and helps the healing process?
    I can't think of it as one and the same. In acute laminitis, I think the body registering the pain of the inflammation is one big thing, that causes the horse to exercise little, rock back on their heels, lie down... thereby reducing further damage & so allowing healing to be more straight forward.

    But in cases of chronic laminitis/founder, where there may not even be any major acute episode... and the horse, left to it's own devices in a domestic environment, doesn't tend to heal at all, but gets gradually worse. Adaptation, in the form of growing more hoof material, lamellar wedge, turned up toes which prevents the breakover from continuing it's forward march, and 'remodelling' of P3 do however appear to help 'shore up' the hooves somewhat.
         
        04-20-2013, 02:58 AM
      #70
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Regula    
    The BO had one of her laminitic horses shod with a regular horseshoe turned backwards
    I'd ask her how long it took to fix the problem & get the foot back to normal with this treatment, and what other measures were taken.
         

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