My gelding has Laminitis
 
 

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My gelding has Laminitis

This is a discussion on My gelding has Laminitis within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Laminits neglected hooves
  • Is it better to shoe a horse who has subclinical lamintis

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  • 1 Post By Horseman56
  • 1 Post By walkinthewalk

 
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    02-01-2012, 02:05 PM
  #1
Foal
My gelding has Laminitis

Well I got my horses on Dec 28th, I saw them briefly before they came to me, my friend picked them up and took them to her house (where they are at until I fence my 10 acres) I knew his hoofs needed trimmed badly and he was about 150 lbs overweight at least. No muscle all fat. So we got them use to being handled again and got the farrier to come out about a week ago. Kate the mare has great hoofs but my gelding (the fat 1) has laminitis in the front 2. The farrier said part may be because his hoofs were neglected at his old place (they were long and chipped pretty bad some places, he needs atleast 1 more visit to fix them) She showed me how the white was thicker than normal she said it wasn't bad and may go away with weight loss and keeping his feet trimmed right. We both agreed he shows NO signs of any lameness and it does not seem to bother him at all, we are working on the weight loss he has lost about 40 lbs and needs to lose about 50-75 more. He gets worked in the round pen or taken for a walk (me leading him on lead rope) atleast 3-4x a week. It is coming off slowly but we are getting there.
Do you guys think it will get better? She said he can be ridden and should be fine I am just worried 1st time I have dealt with this lol.
     
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    02-01-2012, 02:35 PM
  #2
Super Moderator
Riding him is ok, with laminitis? I have only ever heard of it in it's more serious phase, when riding would not be considered, at all.

Well, if you've got a good vet that you are working with (vet, not farrier) then it sounds like you have a slow but steady road set out ahead of you. Wishing you the very best of luck with your new horses.
     
    02-01-2012, 02:37 PM
  #3
Foal
Thanks it is very mild, you can't tell by the hoof until you turn it up and see the white is a tad bit thick.
     
    02-02-2012, 12:30 AM
  #4
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moveurasets    
Well I got my horses on Dec 28th, I saw them briefly before they came to me, my friend picked them up and took them to her house (where they are at until I fence my 10 acres) I knew his hoofs needed trimmed badly and he was about 150 lbs overweight at least. No muscle all fat. So we got them use to being handled again and got the farrier to come out about a week ago. Kate the mare has great hoofs but my gelding (the fat 1) has laminitis in the front 2. The farrier said part may be because his hoofs were neglected at his old place (they were long and chipped pretty bad some places, he needs atleast 1 more visit to fix them) She showed me how the white was thicker than normal she said it wasn't bad and may go away with weight loss and keeping his feet trimmed right. We both agreed he shows NO signs of any lameness and it does not seem to bother him at all, we are working on the weight loss he has lost about 40 lbs and needs to lose about 50-75 more. He gets worked in the round pen or taken for a walk (me leading him on lead rope) atleast 3-4x a week. It is coming off slowly but we are getting there.
Do you guys think it will get better? She said he can be ridden and should be fine I am just worried 1st time I have dealt with this lol.
Couple of points.

First, I suspect your "farrier" isn't a farrier. From what you've shared, it sounds more like an amateur trimmer.

Laminitis is a pathology, usually associated with a metabolic disorder but can be resultant significant trauma.

A stretched whiteline is indicative of hoof capsule distortion (e.g. Overly long toes, flaring, etc) but, DOES NOT, by itself, rise to the diagnostic level of either acute on-set or sub-clinical chronic laminitis.

It is unusual for a laminitic to present no indications of lameness. Acute on-set laminitis typically presents with significant lameness. Chronic laminitis may present more subtle indications not always apparent to the owner. In neither case is it ever appropriate to recommend riding a horse suffering laminitis. In my experience, laminitis should always be treated as an emergency situation.

While the description you've provided does suggest evidence of laminitic risk, it does not suggest any significant on-going inflammation or interdigital laminar failure associated with active pathology. Moreover, neither your trimmer or any one else on planet earth can "fix" a laminitic with just "one more trim". The suggestion that laminitis is somehow in part caused by hoof neglect is indicative of a practitioner that has no more knowledge of the topic than do you. In other words, your BS meter should redline at such notions.

If you have concerns, step one is to acquire a set of radiographs. Have the attending vet provide a lameness evaluation. Use the opportunity to discuss your horse's general condition and dietary needs.

Step two is to engage a competent, full service farrier. Share the radiographs and the vet diagnostics workup with the farrier. Even if your horse does not present current, active laminitis, there is value in having a set of baseline radiographs for future reference.

Cheers,
Mark
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    02-02-2012, 07:21 AM
  #5
Green Broke
Ditto what Mark said.

Also, not sure what you're diet strategy is for this horse but it needs to NOT include any sort of bagged feed with corn, oats, molasses in it.

When a horse founders and it is not mechanically induced (road riding, etc), or it got into the grain bin, that horse has insulin issues that need addressed five minutes ago with proper diet.

Is the Paint in your avatar the gelding in question? I hope so because, if it isn't, you're possibly dealing with two metabolic horses. I see a cresty neck on that very pretty horse and THAT means insulin issues

While you're getting that very nice 10 acres of pasture built, PLEASE order a grazing muzzle for this horse.

The Tough-1 Easy Breath from Chicks Saddlery are cheap, they take a beating and better yet, have huge breathing holes so the horse doesn't feel like it can't breath in them. They also have a breakaway on them. They are also a lot lighter weight than Best Friends that cost ~$50; I hate those heavy things.

Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com Tough-1 Easy Breathe Grazing Muzzle

I use them on my Walking Horses. The Big Headed Guy went from trying to hide in the corner to flipping the muzzle on himself, after learned about these Easy Breath muzzles.

Regarding riding, I don't think I'd be doing anything more than a little bit in the round pen until the hooves get in better condition, but that's JMO.

Can you post pics of his hooves? And do you have any other options for a Trimmer? The horse does not need shoes to stay sound - my 24 yr old metabolic horse has stronger/healthier hooves than he's ever had due to diet change.

Hope this helps a little
     
    02-02-2012, 08:28 AM
  #6
Foal
The farrier was recommended by my equine vet because she use to work there, she does everything, she said trimming 1 more time would get rid of his CRACKED hoofs, not cure the laminitis, also he does not have shoes, his feet are to cracked from lack of care by previous owner. She said he needed to lose weight and I would have to watch him in green pasture because of a risk of founder. He has only been in the round pen and walked on lead rope we have put a saddle on him but no one has been on him. He still needs to loose some weight, the guy that had him before me just poured straight sweet feed to these horses No hay,pretty much no grass I do not know for how long. The place I am keeping them her daughter is in vet school she has been through about half specializing in Equines yes I know she is not a full vet but she still helps when she can. I will see about getting some pics of his hoofs later today. He does still get some sweet feed we are kinda weaning them off right now he gets 95% Bermuda hay, and just a little sweet feed, we did not want to do a sudden diet change. He bucks, kicks runs and plays, he sticks his tail straight up and runs like a baby lol. Shows no sensitivity or anything you would never know anything was wrong with him unless you see the white, like I Said it is slightly thicker than I guess it is suppose to be. We have talked about maybe having to dry lot him this spring, I will check into that grazing thing though walkinthewalk, may be something to consider, Thanks And ya it is the black/white TWH, we are working on getting his weight off safely. He has lost about 40 lbs now just getting him back on forage and off pure sweet feed.
     
    02-02-2012, 08:31 AM
  #7
Foal
Here is a better pic of the horse, I will work on hoof pic today. Him and his mom, and him with my friend this is the most he has had on him saddle and bit, 1st time we put the bit in his mouth.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BuddyKateHay2012.jpg (96.1 KB, 106 views)
File Type: jpg BuddyLaceyJan2012.jpg (96.8 KB, 104 views)
     
    02-02-2012, 09:24 AM
  #8
Green Broke
It's a wonder those horses are up and walking, given how the previous owner fed them

You've had him long enough that he can come right off whatever sweet feed you're giving him.

My thought is to get both of them started on a ration balancer. They are for horses that only eat forage and they have all the vitamins/minerals in them most horses need.

You would have to see what quality RB's are available in your area. Nutrena Empower, Enrich 32, Triple Crown, Blue Seal, etc.

Also give these horses white salt, not the colored mineral blocks. The mineral blocks have iron in them. Iron trumps copper and zinc which are needed for these horses to stabilize insulin.

Tennessee Walkers are on the predisposed list for insulin issues. Please, please, please buy him one of those grazing muzzles.

Even though he appears to be walking sound, I am willing to bet money that a vile of blood to check his insulin level would show he's another founder attack waiting to happen.

That neck is waaaaay too thick - even for a Walking Horse that's built like a Quarter Horse

Taking dietary and hoof preventative action now on this horse is the right thing to do, in order to prevent the insulin issues he looks like he's heading toward. Metabolic horses are essentially Type II diabetics in the human world.

Can't wait to see pics of the underside of his hooves. Don't wash them as the wet will skew things. Just brush them off really good with a wire brush or a stiff bristled brush
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    02-02-2012, 08:06 PM
  #9
Trained
Pretty much agree with Mark, except on a few minor points.

Wouldn't be jumping to conclusions about the trimmer - she may well be unknowledgeable, but based only on what has been told, given that OP likely didn't relate what she was told word for word either, who knows??

Quote:
It is unusual for a laminitic to present no indications of lameness. ...Chronic laminitis may present more subtle indications not always apparent to the owner. In neither case is it ever appropriate to recommend riding a horse suffering laminitis.
I disagree that it is that unusual for *chronic or sub-clinical* lami to come without obvious lameness - that's why it's called 'sub clinical' for one. However horses do tend to be stoic & just because there are no indications clear to us doesn't mean they're not hurting IMO. Therefore I agree that the horse shouldn't be ridden *without a good trim & hoof protection/support* at least.

Quote:
The suggestion that laminitis is somehow in part caused by hoof neglect is indicative of a practitioner that has no more knowledge of the topic than do you.
Think it depends on your definition of lami, but if you take it to mean any inflammation or damage to the laminae/wall connection, then I disagree. Allowing hooves to get so long that there is significant leverage against the laminae at every step can cause mechanical laminitis IMO. Thankfully, if this happens in absence of other metabolic causes, I find it can indeed often be well on the way to 'fixed' in a few trims.
     

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