Odd behavior after a trim - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 08-04-2014, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Odd behavior after a trim

So the new farrier was back out today to trim my other three horses, and to do a touch up on the two he did previously.

My two riding horses, Star and Harley, he said were overreaching. Which I've never noticed before. He said he'd fix it with their trim.

Star is a 6 year old Quarab, never had shoes on, is just doing some very minor dressage, and is mostly a trail horse. This mare has plain amazing hooves, even if they are dainty, never taken a lame step.

Harley, 10 year old Paint, hasn't had shoes on in the last five years, Toes in severely on his fronts, again trail horse.

They got trimmed, thrown in the pasture, while I went to work but I noticed no problems when I turned them out. Fast forward 6 hours and I get out of work, go home, to find Harley standing with his front legs stretched out in front of him.

I though founder for a moment, but there is no other symptoms, and when I went to lead him, he wanted to rock back on his hinds. I put him on the lunge so I could see better, and his left front has a slight, almost hitch to it at the trot. He's not really bobbing, but is reluctant to put his weight on it. I went and picked his hooves up, and he gave me quite a fight about picking up his right front, clearly not wanting weight on that sore leg.

I noticed on his left front, that he has about a dime size piece of sole that is to high. Its over the edge of his hoofwall, and is much higher then the rest of the sole.

I'm thinking this is his problem. Harley has always been Mr. Tender Toes. But I'm no expert. I gave him half a bute, and stalled him for the night. If he's still sore tomorrow, I'll have the farrier back out. Mistakes happen and he might have screwed up and missed the bit of sole. I'm a forgiving person and I do like how gentle he is with the horses, so I'd be willing to let him fix his mistake.

I put Harley away, only to notice Star is stumbling. She's showing no signs of lameness, but she is tripping. Now this mare is extremely sure footed, and this is not like her. She's also holding her backs very far under her.

What the heck happened? I'm already quite sure I'll be farrier shopping again.

I'll get pictures tomorrow. It was nearly dark out when I got home and my flash sucks.
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post #2 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 08:20 AM
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That is NOT good news. Can you please post some photos for us? That rocked-back stance means your poor horse is NOT kidding around about his feet hurting. Where on the sole is this dime-sized piece? You may have an emergency on your hands.

It sounds like both your horses were improperly trimmed. Please post some photos here, ASAP, or call your vet or another farrier. ASAP.

Last edited by greenhaven; 08-05-2014 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Change of phrasing
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post #3 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 09:39 AM
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I wouldn't give that farrier another whack at it if I were you. Call out someone competent.
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post #4 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 10:15 AM
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It sounds like they were over trimmed, especially in the toe area. There isn't much that your farrier could do if he came back out - carving out more sole won't elevate the pain, as it will only thin the soles and remove more protection.

Protecting them with hoof boots, styrofoam, or shoes may be necessary to keep them comfortable during this time until they can grow some foot back. If they really are that sore, I would get a vet out, as laminitis may be induced or aggrivated by an overly invasive/aggressive trim.

Last edited by Rialto; 08-05-2014 at 10:25 AM.
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post #5 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 10:36 AM
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Look at Greenhaven's pics and Patty Stiller's Comment #3 to see if this might match what happened with your two horses.

Three days out from trim, horse still sore

As Rialto commented, Laminitis could be a worry, if the toes were trimmed too short, especially with the horse that has already foundered.

Is it possible to put hoof boots on them, part of the day, or wrap their hooves with something until the toes grow out?

If good farrier's are in short supply in your area, I would have a "trip to the woodshed talk" with your current farrier. I would also make every effort to not let him trim unless I am standing there -- even that is no guarantee.

The two brothers that have been trimming the last two years for me, have started to get a little slipshod, especially in the toe area. We did have a mild "oh by the way" chat the last time they were here.

Even though farriers and barefoot trimmers abound like fleas around here, trying to find somebody that is consistently a B+ and shows up on time every time is tough to do. Meaning I have to watch how I say what needs said, because I haven't been able to trim my own horses for the last two years. I can keep the foundered horse's front hooves rasped down but sometimes even that is a huge effort

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post #6 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 10:48 AM
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I hate to bash farriers bc there are not enough there, but replace THIS ONE! Ask your friends who they recommend, or call your Vet and see is he/she knows anybody good at fixing hoof problems. I would want to get a GOOD farrier out and probably shoe both IMMEDIATELY with some pads to allievate their pain.
I bought this QH once who was a good guy, but I hated both his road trot and his "ship at sea in a storm" rocky canter." He was only 15'2hh and had a 17hh+ TB/Warmblood, takes an expert to ride canter, so I decided that he was for sale. I had used him for several months in my lesson program, and he was obedient and quite sound, being used for about 5 hour lessons a week. I sold him to a friend new to CW Reenacting. One week later he tells me that his gelding is lame, and complains that it is MY fault. Found out that he just had the horse trimmed. Obviously it was a poor farrier who trimmed too short. Poor horse. This idiot took a gelding that we had trained to gunfire, trimmed him wrong, then, after recovery hit the horse in the head with his pistol several times while trying to fire during a "battle" and trained him to fear a gun.
There are a LOT of idiots out there. =/
Prayers sent for your horses' recovery.
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post #7 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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I'm at work right now, so pics when I get home.

The rock like piece of old sole is close is between the bars and the hoofwall. I really think this is a huge part of the problem. Harley is thin soled, lots of TB in his background, and he has crappy hooves.

Looking at them this morning its like the toe was put on an angle from the sole. If you have the hoof facing up, right about the middle of the hoof, right after the frog ends, it starts slanting down, almost like a ramp.

This sadly is the farrier my vet uses too. I've called him and he's going to swing by when I'm at work and take a look. He's not to happy either.

Our area has tons of the crap farriers, and every time I find one I think is pretty good, after a few trims they either stop showing up (most don't want to travel and I'm pretty far out), or after a few trims they just start doing a crap job. I had one guy I used for 3 trims, loved him, though I wasn't a huge fan of his complaining about my horses being barefoot instead of shoed, and last time he came out he butchered their hooves. Harley had to wear boots for 5 months to fix that mess.

If it had just been one horse lame I'd give him another shot to fix his mistake. But Star being lame does not add up. This mare has ridden rocky trails barefoot without flinching, she road rides barefoot, she's got beautiful hooves, so to have her off is a major no go.

I booted Harley this morning and though he seemed stiff, it did help. Star doesn't have boots, but she's in a nice sandy paddock.

I'm seriously thinking of just going back to doing my own. I am not the greatest, but I never made them lame! My issue is with the sole. I struggle with the amount to take off.
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post #8 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 12:55 PM
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DO go back and do your own trimming and filing. DD and I did it for a few years in between farriers and before I found my great little Amish farrier. (He's not tall.)
Back in the 1980's Western Horseman published a softcover book on trimming and shoeing. Never wanted to shoe bc I have a scar on my hand from a nail when I helped a farrier do my horse, but your horses will get so good with their feet begin handled and you could be filing them every week if you wish and really keep them looking and feeling good. =D

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post #9 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 01:06 PM
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I also agree with replacing your farrier. You already said he had to come out to fix two others and then it seems as though he cut this one too short. The horse is obviously in pain. It seems as though this is farrier error again. I would say ask around to find other farriers. Have them out for a consult if you can. It just seems like this guy has messed up one too many times. Hoofs are not something to mess around with.

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post #10 of 35 Old 08-05-2014, 01:28 PM
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That ramp your are referring to is called rockering the toe. It sounds like it was done too aggressively. If you've never checked him out, please google Gene Ovnicek on hoof mapping and how to trim. When he rockers the toe he uses the thickness of his thumb at the point of the frog as a height guide.
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