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Opinions on where to start trimming these feet!!

This is a discussion on Opinions on where to start trimming these feet!! within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
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    01-08-2012, 06:03 PM
  #21
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by missyclare    
One thing though, the tendon does stretch and stores energy like an elastic band.
Wasn't clear - yes, they have a bit of stretch, but very little. It's the muscles that need to adjust.
     
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    01-08-2012, 06:24 PM
  #22
Trained
Quote:
This is just continuing the unhelpful and completely beside the point argument but I do not see how everyone is getting the impression that a farrier is being asked to train the colt and/or spend "four times as long as usual" on him. Read carefully now. The colt stands fine.... - he has earned this!
I did 'read carefully' thank you & it was you who said you found it unreasonable that farriers wouldn't take whatever time, do whatever horses. I don't recall anyone saying you should expect more of the horse after a week, he shouldn't have breaks, whatever. I'm not arguing anything, just saying I think your attitude about what farriers should & shouldn't do is unreasonable IMO. I don't think it is 'beside the point' at all, if it can help you or others work out who's responsibilities are whos, between farrier & owner, to make for better, more helpful relationships.
NorthernMama likes this.
     
    01-08-2012, 07:08 PM
  #23
Trained
Re those pics, I reiterate that I think concentrating on gradually reducing those heels all round is the most important - I'd be keeping them down level with the sole and reducing them as often as possible without rasping into the sole plane - eg. Perhaps a couple-few mm twice a week, if they allow. Again, the RF looks like it will need to be rasped on a bevel in relation to what is currently the ground surface, in order to shorten those underrun heels & get them back without getting into the sole.

The cruddy walls esp on his backs will need to be kept back & cracks, holes, etc cleaned out. I'd suggest soaking all feet regularly in strong saline or such, to treat infection. I would cut off all the daggy, loose bits of frog & any that looks thrushy.

That's some pretty amazing quarter flaring on that LF! That needs dealing with too. I've marked the solar pic, to show approximately where I might take it back to. I would bevel them back well into the 'white line', because that is obviously very stretched & the footprint should be about there. While it's hard to tell from the pic, my lines are still in the lamellar area, not in so far as I think is true sole. You DO NOT want to go into that. I also marked the front-on one, to show how it would look. I don't necessarily worry too much about dressing the flare off from the outside, if it doesn't interfere with the horse's movement, and in this sort of case it would mean taking too much hoof wall so there may not be enough left for protection or wall integrity. However if you intend to get boots for him, it will need to be dressed to a fair degree, to get any to fit that foot - I'd probably be inclined to do a few trims on him first & allow the well attached walls to grow down a fair bit before doing this.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg LF1.jpg (71.0 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg LF7.jpg (45.2 KB, 131 views)
     
    01-08-2012, 07:37 PM
  #24
Started
However if you intend to get boots for him, it will need to be dressed to a fair degree, to get any to fit that foot

Boots?
     
    01-09-2012, 11:16 AM
  #25
Foal
     
    01-09-2012, 12:16 PM
  #26
Green Broke
I don't know why anyone was giving New_Image a hard time because she basically rescued this horse. She is not the one that caused him to be overgrown or unhandled. She is giving the horse a good home and trying to sort him out. So the rude posts were, well, rude.

I just wanted to say that his feet are still horribly overgrown and I would worry about him romping and running around on them. Some of them look clubby from all the overgrown heels, but the front right actually scares me the most, because although the hoof is trying to grow at a natural angle he doesn't have a flat foot to stand on and it looks like he could really pull a tendon if he romped around too much on it like that.

I have been doing my own hoof care for years and years. Over ten years. I am pretty confident cutting in to a hoof but these feet are so overgrown that I really think you should try to find a good farrier. I would if I were in your shoes. If his feet get under control and you want to trim them yourself later, that is great. But he still needs a LOT of hoof taken off.

He has so much to take off and the boundaries are not really clear because of all the retained sole. I think it would be quite a job for even a skilled farrier, so I don't think this is something an owner would want to tackle themselves. Especially because he is still a growing horse and you want to set him up for success.

Just my 2 cents worth. Best of luck with your beautiful new boy.
     
    01-09-2012, 12:25 PM
  #27
Foal

This is a pic of the existing Left Front. The blue lines show the height of the heel, the balance between them and the outline of the hoof. The thin white lines are all bar. When this hoof is weighted, the height of those bar walls jam down at an angle...pinching in under the frog. The white center line is the run of bone. Heel balance is the line that runs between the heels being perpendicular to the bone. So, you can see that the right heel is higher than the left, bar also. The outline of the frog is where the groove is and red arrow pointing to the higher heel getting it harder, so bruised.


This is the same pic. I just saved it and kept going. The horizontal white line is the new height of the heels and balanced. The line going around the hoof is the new wall height, which is correcting the balance back to front. If you look at the new heel line, together with the new wall line, You can imagine the balance by looking at these two lines together and imagining a perfect sunset on the water. The heavy white line going around the hoof under that, is how much that bar needs to be brought down. The bar ramps at the back should start at the front by merging up out of the sole halfway back on the frog and ramp straight up to meet the new heel height dead on. The line in front of the ramps, its height flows forward to be at the height shown.
The picture below that shows the finished trim and what it should look like.
The heavy white contour lines show the new shape of the interior of the hoof in relation of bar to hoof wall.

You can print this pic and take it to the barn with you. You can literally draw the heel balance line where its on the back of the heel platforms right on the hoof and rasp down to meet those marks. You can also do the same to establish the new wall and use it as a guide as well. All the solid white area is a surface that is flat to ground. Then after you arrive on the wall height, the thin black lines shows the bevel on that surface.
Because he's been standing in a stall so long, he hasn't been moving and torquing on that excess growth. His parts and pieces have have stubbornly been able to hold their places, which is an advantage. It means that you can get down to those marks safely and can even go further, but enough change for now. Reverse the rasp in your hand and lay it on the heel platform and pull back towards yourself as you take the heels down, then normally working your way around the hoof, down to the new wall height.
These lines can be identified on the hoof, marked to arrive. The balance will be improved front to back and side to side. Heels coming down a little bit and enough change for now.
It will be good to tweak, like once a week to keep moving towards your goal. His parts and pieces will better define themselves and it will be easier to see after this trim. The goal is to let him get his ducks in order from this trim, so the hoof can talk to you and you can listen, so it will be easier.
The bevel should leave 1/16" of white line still attached to the edge of the sole from 10-2 o'clock on the hoof (center line is at 12 o'clock) and everthing beveled at a 45 degree angle on out from there. On the sides the bevel fades out to only take the outer half of the wall away in bevel and should carry back to include the sides of your heel platforms. (but not the back of the platforms. The heel balance line should look just like I drew it. Straight, balanced and flat to ground and the bevel. (angled short black lines on each side.

Just what you've trimmed so far, I can see the positive reaction. The breakover has come back and the frog, which was stretched forward, is receding back to where the true apex is. The mess in front of the apex, is leftover frog (black) which needs to be cleaned up off the sole....gently, carefully scraped off. What looks to be a hole in front of the apex is the toe wall height showing itself and will be diminished when you arrive at this trim. For now, don't lower the bar any more than what the line shows going around the frog. After this trim, we start slivering the bar with more care.
You can post pics after the trim to see if you "arrived" or in a week and I'll do this again to help you move forward.
It takes me awhile to do this, as I'm not just squaring up lines, but thinking about comfort, balance, the run of bone and many other things. So, it takes time. Best to put patience on your sleeve for me and the horse. The pictures will keep coming on each foot until I get them done for you. If you have any questions, please ask.





     
    01-09-2012, 01:25 PM
  #28
Foal
LF again...side shot.



What will happen with this finished trim and improved delivery to the ground.
Pay attention to not only where on the hoof the line is hitting, but also the shape of the lines. What you see here, you should see on the hoof when you're done.
     
    01-09-2012, 10:24 PM
  #29
Foal


Oh, this is a special hoof indeed and in more trouble. This one has been taking more weight than the other. It could be the way he circled in his stall or preferred to stand that way. (pain) Thrush is your enemy. You can't build a hoof if thrush is eating it away.
Right now, the heel shots are arguing with me, but this hoof is getting the founder treatment. I tried to draw gentle angles to help keep your sanity, but the truth of it is P3 may be down on its nose and a feeling of preserving the wall height on the front 1/2 of the hoof. The heels do need to come down to get the back of P3 more ground parallel.
Instead of running a straight line from the back of the heel platforms to the breakover point, I only lowered the back half and left the area around the apex (from 9 to 3) alone. Preserving all height in the front half. It also has an advantage of the existing rocker shape (like a rocker shoe that relieves pressure) so good. See how far back the breakover point is? How far back the existing toe needs to come? That's toe wedge. It's that distance that has pulled down on P3's nose. This must be relieved a) because that excessive overhang of toe, at the second when the hoof leaves the ground, rips upward at the same angle that a 45 bevel would totally relieve. Rips the white line apart from the ground up, losing hold to bone. That torque of long breakover flares out the walls and causes flare (skirting), but it also pulls forward stretching frog, bars and heels with it. He has looong heels, but they are not so high on this foot, because they are at a colllapsed angle from the pull forward finally making him walk on the backs of the heel platforms, instead of the tops. B) If P3's nose is low and you find yourself needing to preserve that wall height, then there's another reason to take the heels down slowly. You must preserve the back to front balance and wait for the toe. C) When you have such an excessive toe length out front, at breakover, it stabs into the ground. The pressure goes right up the hoof wall to the band. I've just learned that that pressure increases as it goes up the wall. Look at the short angle coming down the front from the band.
There are two lines there, but you can't see one. One is slightly steeper...the existing angle, which is an angle that is tucked in tighter than it should be. This is caused by that pressure going up the wall and pinching in hard right at the bottom point of that short line. I have seen effects of that pressure happening on others, and it bites right in there, considerable pain and windows of hoof wall having to be removed to relieve the pressure. That is another reason why that toe must go back. D) The excess toe causes balance reaction and forward running cannon and now the path of pathology reaches the knees and beyond.
Anyway, I drew that thin black line at the toe, to show you how to go about the shape while you gradually work on it. Think " a whopper of a mustang roll." What it will do, is bring the toe back towards the red dot and roll with the punches in motion to relieve that pressure going up the wall. See how the shape of my thin black line will roll better than the existing. Form is function.
I've drawn the bone in. I don't claim to have xray eyes, but that's what it feels like. This is not trim instruction, but a "get to know this foot" session.
I'm still working on the heel shots. The red lines are a hoof that has arrived.
Boots and pads are especially beneficial for this kind of hoof. The padding allows a soft/protected bottoming out when weighted, then gives back and says to the bone...get back up there where you belong....with every step.
If you don't coax the bone, you'll be in a tight trimming corner forever.
Definitely feed trace minerals. If he's getting them in a bagged feed, then put out free choice as well and let him decide. Copper's a biggie for hoof health and spitting out thrush, and what has me suspect of a copper deficiency....the color of his coat.
     
    01-10-2012, 04:52 PM
  #30
Started
This is all very interesting and thank-you so much again for taking the time!

and what has me suspect of a copper deficiency....the color of his coat.
Can you explain how the color of his coat gives you that impression?
I actually have a herbalist coming out to muscle test a few horses, him included.
     

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