the plea for barefootedness - Page 11
 
 

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the plea for barefootedness

This is a discussion on the plea for barefootedness within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category

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        09-03-2013, 09:39 AM
      #101
    Green Broke
    I don't think there is anything wrong with asking, but if it was my horse I would probably tell you "no". I believe most horse do better barefoot, but a horse that has been shod all it's life is probably going to take a while to transition to barefoot. That's a lot of commitment for a lease horse.
    What happens if the owner agrees, and the horse is too sore to ride will you continue to lease him or try to work through it?
    If he is doing fine now, I don't see why you would want to change that.
         
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        09-03-2013, 09:56 AM
      #102
    Green Broke
    Clava, funding is available for any sensible study at universities, you will find it is less a case of there not being funding and more a case of no one wanting to apply for said funding because they are scared that the research will prove thier theory wrong.
    I've not read the blog because you havnt provided a link and I've no inclination to go searching for it. N=1 is not a statistcly relevant study in any possible way and unless the data is peer reviewed and all the data provided then it has no integrity. Cherry picking data and ignoring unfavorable data do not make the cut.
    N=1 studies tell us drinking your own urine cures cancer! N=a handful tells us that Strasser trimming is good for horses,

    Shoes are not detrimental to horses hooves. There is plenty of proper scientific proof that remedial farriery works litteraly hundreds of vet papers on the subject, investigations and data etc from all over the world.


    BTW my good farrier is actualy one of the best in the UK and actualy prefers to have horses barefoot over shod if the horse can cope.

    Would you care to tell my vet which minerals my pony is missing because believe me we have been over the subject several hundred times (mineral defficiency being one of the possible causes of his erratic behavior that we explored hence the blood tests)
         
        09-17-2013, 02:34 PM
      #103
    Weanling
    Well folks, I think we have some breakthrough in the whole Eddie shoe issue!!!!

    I had Eddie's owner come out to the barn to meet me last night. I showed him the many issues with Eddie's feet, and we discussed going barefoot as well. Owner isn't quite ready to go there yet, but I believe we may get there some day in the not too distant future. He says he has thought about it, but just never did anything about it.

    I got tons of answers last night, and now am in a much better position than before in regards to the whole Eddie feet issue, and I understand a lot more about why owner has had Eddie shod so long.

    Owner bought Eddie 4 years ago with shoes on him already. Eddie got shoes when he started in training (i will assume at 2 years since he did a reining show at 3 years old). Owner just kept the shoes on, and never asked at the time of purchasing the horse why Eddie had shoes. You know, the keep on with keepin' on for the sake of keepin' on sort of thing. When point blank asked why Eddie has shoes owner flat out said 'i honestly don't know'. It isn't good that owner never did find out if the shoes were on for therapeutic reasons at one point in the past, but as we can all see, they are not doing Eddie any good now.

    The rear right hoof has a chip in it that leaves just one nail holding the shoe on on that side. I now have permission to call a farrier of my choice to pull the shoe if the rear right shoe should look like it is coming off before owner's farrier comes back from vacation. I am allowed that much so far. It is a start!!!! And if the right rear is going to get pulled, the left rear needs pulled too so that Eddie isn't barefoot on just one hind for the 10 days or more until regular farrier is back. Owner said that he wants to ensure I am there when regular farrier comes out to work on the front feet, to ask lots of questions, because owner just doesn't have answers for me. What this whole situation looks like is owner putting complete trust in one farrier for many years without researching or questioning anything. The regular farrier has been doing Eddie's feet since Eddie started training , so that is 7 long years with only one farrier, who IMO is not doing the greatest job.

    I showed owner the front of hoof angles with a straight edge (hey, my big mane comb worked great! Lol), and the angle from coronet to where the toe meets the ground on his back feet is pretty much perfect/straight. On his front feet, I can nearly slide my index finger between his hoof and the comb on the left foot right isn't quite so bad, but still dished pretty badly. I also pointed out the under-run heels, and other issues. I free longed Eddie to show him how blatantly he is landing toe first, how stiff he is striding due to feet issues, etc.

    I believe yesterday's meeting really allowed Eddie's owner to see the level of dedication I have to this horse, and the amount of care I am willing to put in to ensure his feet are healthy as they can be. Perhaps Eddie's owner didn't realize before that i'm not just leasing to get my ride time in, but to care for and love on his horse as if Eddie were my own.
    Shropshirerosie likes this.
         
        09-18-2013, 11:24 AM
      #104
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EdmontonHorseGal    
    it isn't good that owner never did find out if the shoes were on for therapeutic reasons at one point in the past, but as we can all see, they are not doing Eddie any good now.

    .

    I truly hope that Eddie comes right, that is the important thing.

    This comment I find a little insulting to the horses actual owner, no all shoes are therapeutic some people just like to nail lumps of metal to horses feet, personal choice. Some horses do well barefoot some do well in shoes.

    Please relate your story without insulting the person who actually owns this horse.
         
        09-18-2013, 11:40 AM
      #105
    Green Broke
    I agree with Golden horse, I refrained from commenting when I originaly read your reply OP, but I can't anylonger.

    If I were the owner of that horse and read your last reply you would no longer be allowed to have anything to do with the horse. You are coming accross as a knowit all busy body with fanatical anti shoe tendancies.

    You do not need a theraputic reason to put shoes on a horse. Some people prefer it, some people need it for competition (putting studs in) some horses move better with shoes on (I had one like that).

    As a horse owner it is MY decision to put shoes on my horse, I certainly wouldnt question why any horse I bought had shoes on unless they had something like heartbars on.
         
        09-18-2013, 11:52 AM
      #106
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by faye    
    Shoes are not detrimental to horses hooves. There is plenty of proper scientific proof that remedial farriery works litteraly hundreds of vet papers on the subject, investigations and data etc from all over the world.
    Really, please post links to these studies as I know several people who would be extremely interested in them. The fact is that remedial shoeing is always only a short term fix.

    With regards to your vet, it is unlikely that he has much knowledge on succeeding with barefoot horses as most simply do not receive any training in what is required, but just to get you started often it is an imbalance in magnesium, zinc and copper that can cause problems which may be compounded by an excess of manganese or iron in pastures.

    Your farrier is right to want horses to go barefoot if they can, simply because it is better for their hooves as shoes are always detrimental in some way, but that is often a compromise that many people are happy with. If you don't wish to open your eyes and learn about being barefoot that is up to you, but the blog I mentioned has plenty of well documented evidence of extremely successful navicular and other lameness issue rehabs that only a very blinkered person would just shrug it off with saying it is just a blog.
         
        09-22-2013, 09:49 AM
      #107
    Yearling
    I'd be pretty annoyed if an uppity sharer told me how best to manage my horse. If the horse is sound, then why fix what works? If there is an issue, I will talk to my vet and farrier.
    Speed Racer and NBEventer like this.
         
        09-23-2013, 03:48 PM
      #108
    Weanling
    The problem here was that Eddie is not moving properly, landing toe first, stiff in all four legs. Has lots of dish to his front feet, forward/long toes, underrun heels, and frogs that are very hard, rather shriveled, and lots of chipping in the hoof walls from multiple nail holes. His digital cushion area is sunken in quite a bit. Things needed fixed. This horse is in my care and I want to ensure he is cared for to the fullest extent, right down to the tips of his toes.

    I met with the owner out at my barn, and discussed with him the issues I see with Eddie's feet. I showed him the things I have been noticing that I believe are problematic, and could escalate into issues that may become more severe. I did state my views on what I believe could benefit Eddie, and told the owner it was his horse and his decision on what he wanted with Eddie's feet.

    The owner's farrier has been out, yesterday morning. Eddie's owner decided to have Eddie go barefoot from now through the winter. Eddie's feet have been left a mess (not just my opinion, others at my barn and other horse acquaintances agree) by said farrier, shoes were pulled and barely any trimming or rasping done - even the cracking nail holes right at the edges were left as is with no smoothing them out to minimize chipping. Toes were left very long, not brought back at all. No beveling of the hoof edge done at all either. I was there during the farrier appointment and was not pleased with the way things went, but not my horse and not my farrier, so I pretty much kept my mouth shut except for a couple questions for the farrier.

    I am very sorry that some of you feel I am 'uppity' and a 'busy body' and I am a fanatical anti shoe person. For all three of those things, I strongly disagree. I am not anti-shoe, and have no issue with shoes as long as they are not causing pathology or the horse requires them, but when the shoeing/trimming is causing issues, then I will mention what I think can be done to help the horse. All I can do is share what I see with this horse's feet, explain to the owner my views and concerns, and let the owner take the reins, so to speak, on what happens to his horse. That is the exact chain of events that have happened.

    To put it another way - if you were leasing out your horse and the lease person cared enough about your horse to worry about his farrier care and to research as much as they could to understand the hoof pathology that was causing issues, wouldn't that make you feel confident that you found the right person to lease your horse to?
         
        09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
      #109
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
    This comment I find a little insulting to the horses actual owner, no all shoes are therapeutic some people just like to nail lumps of metal to horses feet, personal choice. Some horses do well barefoot some do well in shoes.

    Please relate your story without insulting the person who actually owns this horse.
    i just re-read this and wanted to clarify that my intent was not to insult the owner here at all. Perhaps better wording was needed, but what I was trying to say is that the owner did not know if Eddie's shoes were for therapeutic reasons at one point (we are talking prior to owner buying Eddie 4 years ago). And what I was trying to explain was that maybe the shoes were put on for some therapeutic reason at some point in the past, but owner does not have that information, and the therapeutic value has now been lost due to various hoof pathology.
         

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