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Ridges on Hooves?

This is a discussion on Ridges on Hooves? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Ridges on horse hooves
  • Ridges+in+hoof+wall

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    02-04-2013, 09:16 PM
  #11
Foal
I don't know much about club feet at all, if you guys say it's not, then I believe you. But I still don't understand the just... blatant aggression going on in this thread :O Is it just the club footed statement, or do you disagree with the entire post about spring hoof issues being avoidable by trimming low, and trimming often? Keep in mind now, no one said to lop the heel off all in one go. I can see gigantic and very sudden angle changes causing issues of course, but in my head, it makes sense to me that keeping the leverage off the hoof wall will result in no separation. If that's wrong, I'd really like an explanation to help me learn but maybe without the verbal eye-gouging....
     
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    02-04-2013, 09:22 PM
  #12
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit88    
WOW really you beleive gottatrot. That is a foundered horse that isnt a club foot wake up!!! You seriously need to do some research. And by the way Walkinthewalk knows way more then both of you two put together. My daughter whos only 14 know a club foot from a foundered foot. The response from walkinthewalk is warrented. She owns that horse I think she knows what wrong with it. So give it a rest already and making remarks about those hoofs you know nothing about. Just to make it clear that's NOT A CLUB FOOT!!!

I bet you could give me a great explanation then? And I'm totally serious, no sarcasm involved here... crap even that sounded sarcastic. Well, it's not supposed to. Having never dealt with a club footed horse, you're right I know pretty much zilch about it. But I have dealt with founder, caused by exactly what gottatrot was talking about, so yeah I did believe it. Criminal, eh? Yeah I know, that was was a bit sarcastic... Let's all put our guns away and have an indoor voice conversation about hoof care !
     
    02-04-2013, 09:50 PM
  #13
Weanling
First of all, I'd like to thank everyone on their input. I'm certain that the horse I mentioned in my original post does not have a club foot, and I don't think the one is walk's photo does either (though I'm no expert!). I've been taught that club feet have an angle much steeper than the adjoining pastern, which isn't what I see in that picture. I've also been taught that they are caused by either genetics or previous trauma higher up on the affected leg.

Anyway, back on topic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gottatrot    
Not everyone agrees with this but ridges are caused by hoof wall that meets up with pressure from the ground and "piles up." Since the wall cannot grow downward easily it begins to buckle and form ridges. It is indirectly caused by feeding changes because the hooves will grow more if protein is added to the diet. Often if the trimming schedule is kept the same, the hooves will overgrow and cause the ridges.

Horses that have the hoof wall kept relieved from the ground will not have any ridges in their hooves, no matter how the diet changes. Hooves also grow more if the circulation to the hoof increases. So "fever rings" are also caused by the hoof growing faster and not getting the excess trimmed off soon enough.
So what you're saying is that the ridges are basically caused by the hoof growing at different rates at different times? It seems to me that if the hoof wall was "piling up" that that particular hoof material would be softer than the hoof that doesn't pile up?

I've done a bit of research on the term "fever rings" and I found that the ridges I've described can be caused by any major change in the horses environment, including feed and new ownership. Basically anything that causes stress. This makes more sense than laminitis, I think, since she's recently started to be trained over the past 4 months or so, and they change the source of their hay every few months. She's not sore and has never come up lame, but I'll still have the vet take a look.
     
    02-04-2013, 09:56 PM
  #14
Foal
Not softer, just sort of pushed up and away from the inner hoof capsule - think bent metal, the metal isn't softer, but the pressure on it causes it move over.

The reason I tend to agree that it is different factors affecting hoof growth rates, and not simply mental stress or illness, is because... well, I mean, something is moving that hoof wall. There isn't pressure being built up behind it in the laminae, like an abscess - and if it's not coming from inside, or the bottom from improper trimming, it can only come from infront, or the top of the hoof wall. If it were coming from the top, the hoof wall would simply grow down, and if it were from the front (not even sure how that's possible but just for science' sake) it would be a dent inward, not a ripply outward.

This would be infinitely easier to explain with playdough.
     
    02-04-2013, 10:03 PM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero    
Not softer, just sort of pushed up and away from the inner hoof capsule - think bent metal, the metal isn't softer, but the pressure on it causes it move over.

The reason I tend to agree that it is different factors affecting hoof growth rates, and not simply mental stress or illness, is because... well, I mean, something is moving that hoof wall. There isn't pressure being built up behind it in the laminae, like an abscess - and if it's not coming from inside, or the bottom from improper trimming, it can only come from infront, or the top of the hoof wall. If it were coming from the top, the hoof wall would simply grow down, and if it were from the front (not even sure how that's possible but just for science' sake) it would be a dent inward, not a ripply outward.

This would be infinitely easier to explain with playdough.
I think I see what you mean. I'm not sure if I mentioned in my original post or not, but the mare has had very inconsistent foot care throughout her life, which I'm guessing might be contributing to the ridges.
     
    02-04-2013, 10:10 PM
  #16
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaphyJaphy    
I think I see what you mean. I'm not sure if I mentioned in my original post or not, but the mare has had very inconsistent foot care throughout her life, which I'm guessing might be contributing to the ridges.

Oh, for sure, yeah.. that's a shame :( My own guy is on a 4 week trim cycle and in the spring especially even that may not be often enough to have a perfectly smooth looking hoofwall with no 'stress lines'. Slower growth rates during the colder months, sure, but not with so much green grass everywhere. The more often the trim, the less stress of the hoof wall, the less white line stretching / hoof wall separation, the less ripples
     
    02-04-2013, 10:18 PM
  #17
Banned
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero    
I bet you could give me a great explanation then? And I'm totally serious, no sarcasm involved here... crap even that sounded sarcastic. Well, it's not supposed to. Having never dealt with a club footed horse, you're right I know pretty much zilch about it. But I have dealt with founder, caused by exactly what gottatrot was talking about, so yeah I did believe it. Criminal, eh? Yeah I know, that was was a bit sarcastic... Let's all put our guns away and have an indoor voice conversation about hoof care !
IV dealt with founder too but as far as a explanation goes no iam no good at that. I know what club feet look like but there again not good and giving details. Walkininthewalk knows a ton about founder as do some others on here. I didnt mean to come off as rude but I get a little fired up at times. One thing about you you admitt to not knowing. So ill calm down and put away my gun for the night. I also have a horse with club feet and they don't look like the hoof in the picture. Well maybe kinda as far as high heels but that about it. Till tomorrow iam off here need to go to bed now.
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    02-04-2013, 10:21 PM
  #18
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit88    
IV dealt with founder too but as far as a explanation goes no iam no good at that. I know what club feet look like but there again not good and giving details. Walkininthewalk knows a ton about founder as do some others on here. I didnt mean to come off as rude but I get a little fired up at times. One thing about you you admitt to not knowing. So ill calm down and put away my gun for the night. I also have a horse with club feet and they don't look like the hoof in the picture. Well maybe kinda as far as high heels but that about it. Till tomorrow iam off here need to go to bed now.
I'll give you a like in exchange. Fair's fair. Also don't sweat it about club feet I took a 15 minutes break from my other break to look some things up on the topic.
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    02-04-2013, 10:50 PM
  #19
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero    
Oh, for sure, yeah.. that's a shame :( My own guy is on a 4 week trim cycle and in the spring especially even that may not be often enough to have a perfectly smooth looking hoofwall with no 'stress lines'. Slower growth rates during the colder months, sure, but not with so much green grass everywhere. The more often the trim, the less stress of the hoof wall, the less white line stretching / hoof wall separation, the less ripples
Makes sense! I might be leasing/(buying?) this mare, so that's why I was wondering. At the very least I'm hoping she stays sound through training and the shows this summer. She's never given any indication that she won't stay sound, but the way she is cared for makes me a bit paranoid sometimes.
     
    02-05-2013, 05:14 AM
  #20
Trained
Hmm, Walkin has given OP some good info already, so that's done, but just have to comment on the... controversy... tho I know you didn't want a critique Walkin

I actually think the comments/description of the (laminitic) walls 'piling up' under pressure is an important concept. Eg. Hooves don't tend to flare either if the walls are adequately balanced & not peripherally loaded. But bit of a simplistic explanation IMO, as there is a fair bit more to it than is said - it's far from just mechanics.

My 'hackles' went up a bit too when it was stated the club foot was because of inadequate trimming too tho. I'm pretty sure that unless she just got that horse in that state, that wouldn't be happening on Walkin's guard. There are a variety of reasons for clubby feet, of which bad trimming is (IMO) a smaller one. It is not correct to give that as the reason.

But as for that foot not being a 'club', I think that just shows that it's a subjective term - I would call it clubby too - & it seems that the right one is a bit too, albeit not as bad. Without more info to go on, I'd *guess* it's due to weak heels combined with ongoing 'low grade' laminitis. But, as per another recent thread, perhaps it many would think of it as 'high-low' syndrome & the difference in terms is about degree.
     

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