Seedy Toe - Help!
 
 

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Seedy Toe - Help!

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  • Can a horse still work after a hoof resection
  • Tea tree oil to help horse seedy toe

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    03-19-2012, 10:04 PM
  #1
Foal
Seedy Toe - Help!

Hi there

So my mare has seedy toe.
I've never seen or dealt with this before... so after suggestions on what to do.

For a while there she was quite sore and seemed almost lame on both front feet (in which she has it). She was really sore following the farrier trim.

I'd never seen it before, so when I called the farrier out for him to check her and trim her jsut said 'oh she has seedy toe' but didn't tell me what to do or anything....

So I started researching online and as per what I read, I used peroxide, and also the iodine spray thing to kill infection for about a week.

Then A friend of mine made up some bluestone and vasaline mix which she swears by and has used on her race thoroughbreds... so i've started using that and packing her hole twice a day with it. She is no longer limping and seems quite ok though the hole isn't reducing or anything.

If she isn't lame because of it, can you still ride? Or is it best to not ride her until she is completely healed and the hole has gone in both feet?

Do you need to have it cut out? Should I shoe her? (never shoed my horses)... jsut don't know what to do!!!

Thanks!
     
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    03-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #2
Weanling
Keep having the farrier come out on a regular schedule to trim his feet. He will also keep the areas with the seedy toe dug out. The best time to put hoof disinfectant on the area is right after it has been trimmed and dug out. Between farrier visits, just be sure to keep your horse's feet picked out daily and brushed out with a stiff bristle brush and then you can put some hoof disinfectant on it. You could try Thrushbuster, Koppertox, White Lightening or something similar. You could try packing a small piece of gauze soaked in disinfectant into the hole to keep it clean and change it daily.

I personally wouldn't pack it with vaseline. I think that this would trap the bacteria under it and not allow air to it or allow it to dry out. A lot of the hoof problems that are caused by bacteria and fungi thrive in airless damp conditions.

I think that if your horse is sound it should be ok to ride him and if he has been barefoot and is doing well you shouldn't need to have him shod because of it.
     
    03-19-2012, 11:58 PM
  #3
Trained
Hi,

Some pics & more info on management, environment, etc would be helpful.

'Seedy toe' is opportunistic infection which gets into disconnected, cracked or otherwise unhealthy wall tissue. Therefore, unless perhaps a constantly wet environment has allowed the infection in, there are likely to be other issues that the infection can be thought of as a symptom of. IME unless it's in the heels, it doesn't tend to cause lameness of itself. Being more sensitive after the trim is not likely due to the seedy toe IME either.

If the hooves are trimmed well & frequently enough and the seedy area is cleaned out & treated with an antiseptic, that should allow it to grow out. Depends how close it is to sensitive tissue as to whether I'd use anything heavy duty such as peroxide & I find soaking in strong saline with a bit of copper is generally effective. Depends on environment & specifics as to whether I'd pack it, but as the bugs that can cause it are generally anaerobic, I wouldn't generally seal it with vasseline or such. Best to leave open to the air & allow to dry out if that's possible. Beeswax can be good though, as it seals out dirt & holds in medication, but also creates aeration as it breaks down.
     
    03-20-2012, 01:20 AM
  #4
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmKeith    
Hi there

So my mare has seedy toe.
I've never seen or dealt with this before... so after suggestions on what to do.

For a while there she was quite sore and seemed almost lame on both front feet (in which she has it). She was really sore following the farrier trim.

I'd never seen it before, so when I called the farrier out for him to check her and trim her jsut said 'oh she has seedy toe' but didn't tell me what to do or anything....
If the mare was presenting lame prior to the trim and your farrier suggested the horse suffers from white line disease (seedy toe), the it is reasonable, presuming no other pathologies, that the infection has reached sensitive tissue and has compromised the laminae connection between the coffin bone and the hoof wall. If severe, treating advanced white line disease is not for the inexperienced.

Quote:
So I started researching online and as per what I read, I used peroxide, and also the iodine spray thing to kill infection for about a week.

Then A friend of mine made up some bluestone and vasaline mix which she swears by and has used on her race thoroughbreds... so i've started using that and packing her hole twice a day with it. She is no longer limping and seems quite ok though the hole isn't reducing or anything.
Topicals can work well for minor infections but lack efficacy in advanced cases of white line disease. If the infection is advanced, a topical antimicrobial simply cannot reach deep enough into the cavity created by the bacteria.

Quote:
If she isn't lame because of it, can you still ride? Or is it best to not ride her until she is completely healed and the hole has gone in both feet?
What is best is to acquire a solid diagnostic so you know what you are dealing with. If the infection is minor and the horse presents no discomfort, then riding may be reasonable. If the infection is advanced, riding can place additional stress on the hoof capsule, further compromising the weakened laminae bond.

Quote:
Do you need to have it cut out? Should I shoe her? (never shoed my horses)... jsut don't know what to do!!!
Step one is to determine the severity of the infection. Radiographs will sometimes define the extent of the bacterial intrusion if it is severe. Simply tapping on the hoof wall with the wooden handle of a hammer can reveal a hollow sound in a compromised hoof.

If the infection is severe, resecting the hoof wall to expose the infection is generally considered the correct approach. If a significant percentage of wall must be removed then a supportive shoeing protocol is typically employed to provide support and stabilize the compromised hoof wall. Any resected area should not be covered over with any kind of sealant. The effected area should be cleaned and treated with an astringent (e.g. Iodine) to treat any remaining infection and harden exposed tissues.

I received a call this past weekend from a new client. Prior farrier had told the client their miniature donkey had mild whiteline disease and to treat topically with iodine. A few weeks later the animal broke off a large section of hoof wall, revealing the extent of the infection and compromised hoof wall.

I ended up resecting a significant percentage of the hoof wall on both fronts (approx 30-40%) to expose all of the infected area. Obviously this severely compromised the structural integrity of the hoof capsule. I packed the back half of the hoof with an antimicrobial dental impression material then made a pair of shoes out of plastic pads to fit this mini donkey. Treated the exposed tissues with iodine then loosely wrapped the hoof with vetwrap (muddy paddocks). Instructed owner to remove the vetwrap and re-treat every 48 hours for 2 weeks. By then the exposed tissues will have completely hardened. The shoes will stabilize the remaining capsule and support the bony column until new hoof wall can begin growing down.

Certainly can't say this is what you are facing but it's an example of what can happen if the disease in left improperly treated. Again, start with a good diagnostic and make sure you have a full service practitioner that can meet all the needs of your horse.

Quote:
Thanks!
You're welcome.

Cheers,
Mark
PaintedPegasus likes this.
     
    03-20-2012, 02:08 AM
  #5
Foal
Thanks heaps for all the advice!

I'll snap some pic's tomorrow morning and post.

I've had her for about 3 months now. When I got her she hadn't long been trimmed, and I was assured she had been trimmed regularly although she hadn't been riden in almost 2 years. She was also very much over weight when I got her.

She had a crack and a bit of seperation in her hoofs when I took her on. I always feed my horses with a bioten supplement once a day and move them from any muddy paddocks. She has of course had the same treatment and I've been feeding her supplements that are meant to help hoof health and promote growth as I thought perhaps I can get it to grow out.

Am wondering if it could have been made worse by the very dry weather, and then suddenly the flooding we have had. When it was so wet and muddy everywhere here, I had her confined to the stable out of the mud and wet.

Will post some pics tomorrow and see what you all think.

THANKS HEAPS AGAIN! MUCH APPRECIATED
     
    03-20-2012, 02:22 AM
  #6
Foal
I just looked on google to try and find an image that most looks like her ...
Im at work at the moment so can't really go take a pic of her until tonight.

Anyway this looks a bit like her...

LHF.jpg
     
    03-20-2012, 11:33 PM
  #7
Trained
Assuming that was her, yes, I'd definitely dig that crack out/resect. As little as possible but as much as necessary to cut out as much as possible without invading live sensitive tissue. I'd treat/soak regularly until the infection was well & truly gone. Keeping the hoof trimmed & 'rolled' in that manner should keep any mechanical stress off it.

If your horse has that much flaring all round I'd be more 'aggressive' in my trimming, bevelling the walls back to allow them to grow down straight. I'd also be looking into her diet for other possible reasons for the flaring - eg 'sub clinical' laminitis.

Those superficial vertical cracks on the outer wall also tend to be an indication of nutritional problems. Biotin is indeed one nutrient associated with hoof health, but there are plenty of others that may be short/imbalanced in the diet, such as magnesium, iodine, copper, zinc, amino acids, etc. I find feedxl.com is a great resource for working out the right diet & nutrition for your horse.
PaintedPegasus likes this.
     
    03-21-2012, 12:58 AM
  #8
Foal
Great posts Loosie and I do like the suggestion of bees wax! Sure beats a whole hoof boot. Up here we have a stiff-like vaseline called Forschner's, but its smell resembles pine tar and like-ingredients. Yup, beeswax sounds better. If it has antiseptic properties like un-pasturized honey, then really good idea. Even if it doesn't, it sounds like a stronger seal than vaseline-based ones that tend to melt down or fall out.

I'm kind of disappointed that the farrier shrugged off your most pertinent question about it. I hope your foot has a bevel on it like this one.

Because this infection doesn't like air, it can go upwards under the wall and continue doing damage and you can't get near it to treat. Then, in order to open it up, requires a serious toe resection that won't be pretty. I think your concern is warranted. Treat and nip this now. If you've got infection in the white line, what kind of shape is the frog in? Treat the whole foot. Get all the infection out. If you don't get it all gone, then it comes back to haunt you, so go after it.

Peroxide isn't one of my favorites, but with seedy toe, it is. I clean and then drop some into the hole, hold for a second, then follow it with Tea Tree Oil. The action of the peroxide literally puts active oxygen in the hole...that's a good thing. Probably the only time I'd use peroxide.
     
    03-28-2012, 11:22 AM
  #9
Foal
I'm a farrier from Montana. Looking at the trim your farrier performed I feel he did an excellent job. If you look closely at the picture you will see where he rasped to the white line as the white is beginning to show. Beyond the white line will break the sole plane and cause major problems.

1. Absolutely no Vaseline as it seals the fungus in and will promote rapid growth.
2. Copper tox works well
3. Keep the horse in dry condition as moisture promotes fungus growth
4. Have your farrier out every 5 weeks.
5. I would not get a resection as the seedy toe appears minor and the horse is not lame.
6. Riding the horse would be of benifit under two conditions.
A. Do not ride the horse for a week to ten days emmediately following trimming
B. Make sure you have non rocky suitable ground where the horse can travel without tip toeing. ( Remember the farrier is having to remove excess hoof to get the seedy toe under control so your horse does not have full use of all its weight bearing structures)

I wish you the best with your horse
     
    03-29-2012, 02:33 AM
  #10
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseman101    
5. I would not get a resection as the seedy toe appears minor and the horse is not lame.
Curious why you believe it's only minor, as it looks significant to me & I've also seen many much more 'minor' looking seedys that upon cleaning them out are worse up further. Also I disagree that the horse not being lame is a reason to leave it untreated. Lameness usually implies that it's infected the sensitive tissue IME & best to avoid allowing it to get that advanced if possible.

Quote:
A. Do not ride the horse for a week to ten days emmediately following trimming
Why not?
     

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