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So frustrated!

4K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  toosexy4myspotz 
#1 ·
This is a bit rantish...

Looks like I'm in the market for a new farrier.

My mare was a bit off last Friday (or Saturday?) at the trot. It wasn't very noticable. I went up to visit her again on Monday and it was a bit more consistant at the trot, but she was still walking even when we walked.

She needed her feet trimmed so I went ahead and jumped on board with the group that was getting their horses done today. She needed the trim and I wanted the farriers opinion.

I told the farrier what was going on and she said she was seeing a lot of abscesses (just today). She didn't want to see her move before the trim, so she trimmed her and then I lunged her.

She's now lamer. So much that she's gimping at the walk now. The farrier hoof tested her and she flinched a little but not drastically and she mentioned that she was a touch warmer on her coronet band on that foot. She said to wait and see if she becomes more tender on it, she could be brewing an abscess.

But who needs to wait? She's now lame at the walk. Not just off, but lame. I checked the trim job since I haven't seen the woman trim before (barn farrier) and it was awful. Just awful. So bad that I'm ashamed to post pictures of it. It looked like an amature hackjob and I can't believe I paid for it.

I'm so frustrated. Not only do I have to find a new farrier, but this farrier worsened her condition instead of helped her.

She told me that it will either go away in a few weeks or get worse (no, really?). If it gets worse, call her. But she didn't want to dig around searching for an abcsess when she didn't really know where it was since my mare didn't keel over when pressure tested.

She actually rasped her soles :-x But didn't use the rasp to round off the hoof. Her feet are chipping already. A friend of mine said that she could be abscessing in a spot where the hoof tester didn't reach, and the trim might have exposed some previously bruised hoof.

Either way, I have to now go up and fix her feet. I took a farrier class a couple years ago but feel as though I'm too rusty to do my own horse's feet now. I've never done anything as bad as that trim job though...its an eye sore. I seriously could not believe she actually charges money for something like that...and I'm usually VERY forgiving when it comes to things like that.

She told me to ride her because the more I ride her, the more pressure the abscess will build and the sooner it would pop. I had reservations about doing it but I tacked her up. I couldn't go through with it though. She was gimping and it just felt wrong.

Looks like the farrier search is now on -_- Sorry for the rant. I was just so excited about getting the farrier out to see her opinion on my mare's hoof and it wasn't just a let-down, it was a catastrophy.

I have some pictures of her feet before the trim but none after...I was too shocked and embarressed. I may take pictures after I clean the mess up though.
 
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#2 ·
I'm sorry! I would go ahead and soak her in Epsom salt twice a day if possible. Once if not. I'd give it a chance to burst. (If it is an abscess). I'd also be tempted to put a poultice on it....

Do YOU think it's an abscess?
 
#3 ·
I'm thinking its an abscess...and hoping for one, actually.

I had a horse go navicular on me a number of years ago and so I'm extremely paranoid about it. The farrier said that she didn't have navicular looking feet, but now I'm not sure how much I can trust her. My horse gets ridden maybe once every two weeks and its never for very long. She hasn't broken a sweat since September.

Neither of her parents had the disease, but I know theres no actual disease. Its more of a condition and many things can cause it.

I do think its an abscess, with my paranoid thoughts of navicular creeping around in the background. I've ruled out thrush. I was very disheartened when the pressure tester didn't bring up anything definite.

I'll be soaking her foot in some epsom salts to try and draw it out. Hopefully it is what I want it to be and it'll come to a head soon.
 
#4 ·
This is a bit rantish...
Yes it is. I can understand you're upset but respectfully, what you've said sounds more emotional than objective. So my response to you may sound 'a bit rantish' too, as I'm afraid I get rather frustrated with this sort of attitude.

My mare was a bit off last Friday (or Saturday?) at the trot. It wasn't very noticable. ... but she was still walking even when we walked.
Horses are typically stoic creatures & if lameness is obvious, it's usually something substantial - barring a stone stuck in the hoof or such. They can often be lame at higher paces but not obviously so at a walk.

She's now lamer. So much that she's gimping at the walk now. The farrier hoof tested her and she flinched a little but not drastically and she mentioned that she was a touch warmer on her coronet band on that foot. She said to wait and see if she becomes more tender on it, she could be brewing an abscess.
Sounds to me, without further info, that what the farrier did/said could have been entirely reasonable in that regard. If horses are abscessing in your area frequently lately, I'd consider the weather may be the culprit. Obviously without further info, only a guess tho.

But who needs to wait? She's now lame at the walk. Not just off, but lame. I checked the trim job since I haven't seen the woman trim before (barn farrier) and it was awful. Just awful. So bad that I'm ashamed to post pictures of it.
What did you expect her to do about it there & then?? As a rule(there are exceptions) I don't think digging for abscesses is necessarily for the best, particularly when it sounds like it was rather obscure at the time of her visit.

She may indeed have done a terrible job of trimming, or it may be that your perception of good trimming incorrect, or different to hers at least - there are different opinions on that. Without any pictures even, we can't even give you a rough opinion on that tho. But this is why it also pays to be educated yourself & be particular about which 'experts' you get to do the job. Were you not present & watching when she trimmed? Did you ask her why she did/didn't do certain things you think she should have.

I'm so frustrated. Not only do I have to find a new farrier, but this farrier worsened her condition instead of helped her.
Abscesses do tend to get worse before they go away. Without far more info I wouldn't jump to blame even a bad trimmer for that.

She actually rasped her soles :-x
While as a rule, rasping into sole is not generally a good move, there are exceptions, such as when there is obviously excess unexfoliated sole for eg.

Either way, I have to now go up and fix her feet. I took a farrier class a couple years ago but feel as though I'm too rusty to do my own horse's feet now. I've never done anything as bad as that trim job though...its an eye sore. I seriously could not believe she actually charges money for something like that... and I'm usually VERY forgiving when it comes to things like that.
*Assuming* the farrier has indeed trimmed the hooves too short, without further info, barring a light 'mustang roll', even if you were an experienced trimmer, I wouldn't advise you attempt much/any 'fixing' until her feet grow some. If you've only done 'a farrier class' years ago & being admittedly 'rusty', I'd find a good farrier/trimmer to do any 'fixing' anyway.

Respectfully, I can well understand owners being ill informed about hoof care generally, so not understanding whether a farrier does a good/bad/indifferent job, but I can't understand someone professing to know better being so 'forgiving' about standards & who they choose to do the work, let alone being so upset with THE TRIMMER for doing a bad job. If I employed(& paid) someone who did a shocking job, it would be ME that I was horrified at.

She told me to ride her because the more I ride her, the more pressure the abscess will build and the sooner it would pop. I had reservations about doing it but I tacked her up.
Why did you go & do that, at least without a second, respected opinion?? :? I strongly disagree with forcing a horse to exercise when they're hurting, unless under veterinary advice, but I do believe *encouraging* movement, if the horse is up to it, is indeed good to bring abscesses to a head. There are other specifics that would affect just how I'd deal with it too though.

I have some pictures of her feet before the trim but none after...I was too shocked and embarressed. I may take pictures after I clean the mess up though.
It would be interesting to see pictures, both before & after, & there are a number of good people here that could give you more to go on, but if you want any kind of opinion on the trim job, you need to provide afters of that too, before you change anything.
 
#5 ·
Alright.

I never said I knew better than the farrier. I said I have never seen a worse job. I feel I am fairly forgiving when it comes to these things because I have allowed apprentice farriers to practice on my horses before since they were never under heavy riding. I understand they are still learning and I allowed them to practice. For someone who has their own business, the job was horrible. I can assure you that.

She told me to ride her and I tacked her up. I never said I rode her.

I'm just generally frustrated that my mare didn't show obvious signs of anything. And my frustration grew when I saw the trim job. I wasn't watching the trim because this particular farrier and my mare had gone at odds with eachother before and I was busy keeping the horse under control.

I do think its an abscess. I did not want her to blindly dig for an abscess. This is my frustration that the abscess (if it is one) is causing the horse discomfort while traveling, but it couldn't be pin pointed with a pressure test.

This is the first time I have seen this particular farrier work. The BO assured me she was very good, and so I expected a decent job on the trim. Unfortunately, I haven't been out to witness it before because when I got my mare, I was in a situation where I wasn't able to see her. The BO took care of things and sent me the bill accordingly. Now that I've seen the work, I'll be searching for someone different.

I'm a bit calmer now than what I was before and know that my frustration lies in my horse's lameness, and my expectations of the visit weren't what I thought they'd be. It was a general "let down" sort of day. The other people at the barn seem to like her work and thats fine. I won't be telling them any differently.

I'm heading up to soak my mare's foot tomorrow, so I will get pictures of it.
 
#8 ·
I never said I knew better than the farrier.
That's certainly the way it sounds. Like I said, I get your frustration tho - why most of us 'trimmers' get into the job in the first place IME. Just trying to put it into perspective.

The other people at the barn seem to like her work and thats fine. I won't be telling them any differently.
Yes, as there are so many owners who don't have a clue, I find that recommendations don't count for much at all, unless you know & respect the amount of knowledge of the people doing the recommending.:-|
 
#7 · (Edited)
Cant comment on the trim without pictures but I will give you my opinion on abscesses.

Dont ride a lame abscessing horse. That just cruel. Thats like being made to hike with an infected ingrown toenail. whoever recommended that ought to have to hike with an infected ingrown toenail o_O

Do soak in epsoms and wrap the foot (up over the coronet) with a diaper full of Icthammol wrapped in duct tape so the horse can walk around in it so everything stays soft. Do this every other day and let the foot naked the day in between. Too much soaking will actually hinder blowing the abscess by softening the hoof capsule and not forcing it up and out. Yet the drawing salves and soaking really can help comfort the horse and soften the blowout area. I think its best to alternate days and leave the hoof naked to harden in between so you get the best of both worlds. Its a coaxing process sometimes and you have to make judgement calls.

DO turn said abscessing horse out with other horses in a large area so the horse will move on its own or be encouraged to move by its buddies. This is a good time to utilize a young annoying horse that always wants to play or a cranky old boss mare who will herd the other one around a bit.

DONT give bute in the early stages so the abscess can form properly and come to a head so to speak. Do give bute at the end stage or after a good 7 days or so if it hasnt popped yet and see if it encourages the horse to really get moving around and pop it on its own. If it doesnt help after a couple days, stop the bute as the abscess may be deep and large and buting will only hinder progress. Its best to only use it if you are pretty certain the thing is about to blow to encourage the horse to use the foot and force it to go.

Dont let the farrier carve them out of the sole if you can help it. Best they blow out the top hopefully.
 
#10 ·
Hi;

Just wanted to ask a quick question: So, it is better to let the abscess blow out the top than to dig it out?

I wish I had known that. My vet recently dug out an abscess she said that was discovered 2 days before most are found. I thought that a weird thing to say. But there was just a little clear liquid coming out of a crack in the bottom of the hoof. It wasn't pus. My horse was very painful but it was hard to tell from where. She had colic as well. My vet said from the pain. She gave her bannamine. Told me to stall rest for 1 week and then hand walk only. I had to replace the diaper/duct tape boot in 48 hours and then every 48 for another week. At the change of my first boot, so 4 days later there was blood in the diaper. I called both the vet and the "farrier" at the time and both told me I probably either wrapped to tight (which I don't do) or that I cut her when removing the old wrap (which I didin't do).

Sorry to chime in here, but just wanted to share what happened with my horse and agree that it isn't good to ride them if they are hurting and I am glad you didn't ride your horse.

I also was wanting be sure of the abscess information from trinity because I was under the impression that it was some horrible neglect thing if the abscess blows out the coronet band. I am not trying to insult or anything here. I really just don't know.

I was not happy with my horses "pre abscess" being dug out and neither was my horse.

Shouldn't vets know? Shouldn't farriers know? Sad, this world our horses live in.
 
#21 ·
Hi;

Just wanted to ask a quick question: So, it is better to let the abscess blow out the top than to dig it out?

I wish I had known that. My vet recently dug out an abscess she said that was discovered 2 days before most are found. I thought that a weird thing to say. But there was just a little clear liquid coming out of a crack in the bottom of the hoof. It wasn't pus. My horse was very painful but it was hard to tell from where. She had colic as well. My vet said from the pain. She gave her bannamine. Told me to stall rest for 1 week and then hand walk only. I had to replace the diaper/duct tape boot in 48 hours and then every 48 for another week. At the change of my first boot, so 4 days later there was blood in the diaper. I called both the vet and the "farrier" at the time and both told me I probably either wrapped to tight (which I don't do) or that I cut her when removing the old wrap (which I didin't do).

Sorry to chime in here, but just wanted to share what happened with my horse and agree that it isn't good to ride them if they are hurting and I am glad you didn't ride your horse.

I also was wanting be sure of the abscess information from trinity because I was under the impression that it was some horrible neglect thing if the abscess blows out the coronet band. I am not trying to insult or anything here. I really just don't know.
In general you want the abscess to blow out the top because it's easiest to keep it clean and draining. If it blows out the bottom it's nearly impossible to keep clean and is continually closing up and locking icky crap inside which invites more and more abscesses...
Things vary across the pond!
I will always have either the vet of farrier cut into the sole for an abscess. The relief is instant for the horse whereas it can take weeks to break out of the coronary band. Secondly, you do not get any hoof wall damage which can and often does happen with a break out on the coronary band, thirdly gravity and weight pressure helps the drainage.

I prefer a larger hole cut than a smaller one, it allows for better drainage and stops it closing over. Once the muck is out then I will pack the hole with cotton wool and stockholm tar. Rarely is the horse unsound for more than a couple of days after opening it.

As for this horse, if it was not reacting to pressure then the farrier would not know where to release the pus from, of course it will be lamer because the pus is building up. Anyone who has had a whitlow on their fingernail will know how painful it is and the relief when it is lanced is great and instant. More so with a horse as we do not weight bear on our fingers!
 
#11 ·
In general you want the abscess to blow out the top because it's easiest to keep it clean and draining. If it blows out the bottom it's nearly impossible to keep clean and is continually closing up and locking icky crap inside which invites more and more abscesses...

I recently switched farriers myself. While my old farrier was actually doing a pretty good job, he wasn't experienced enough to handle the issues that I had so I switched and interestingly enough... After the switch, I went from an abscess a month to none. I thought I had one coming along after my last shoeing but I poultice and the soreness went away...

As for riding a horse with an abscess, I disagree but I understand her concept. I do believe that turning an abscessing horse out is better than stalling one because of the blood flow that movement brings on...

How is the horse now?
 
#12 ·
One of our mares when dead lame on us about two months ago. It scared me cause she was walking three legged around her paddock. Thinking the worse we looked her up and down. No swelling no heat, nothing. Her hoof wasnt even warm. So we have both the vet and farrier out at the same time and both said absess even though there was no heat anywhere. I have never ever known my farrier to be wrong so whatever he says, goes. We turned her out in the large paddock with four other horses and in two days the absess had worked its way out the bottom of her hoof. Now she did not respond at all to hoof testers. She not once even so much as flinched. My mare didnt show any other symptoms of having an absess but being lame.
 
#23 ·
One of our mares when dead lame on us about two months ago. It scared me cause she was walking three legged around her paddock. Thinking the worse we looked her up and down. No swelling no heat, nothing. Her hoof wasnt even warm. So we have both the vet and farrier out at the same time and both said absess even though there was no heat anywhere. I have never ever known my farrier to be wrong so whatever he says, goes. We turned her out in the large paddock with four other horses and in two days the absess had worked its way out the bottom of her hoof. Now she did not respond at all to hoof testers. She not once even so much as flinched. My mare didnt show any other symptoms of having an absess but being lame.
This makes me feel so much better.

Thank you for all the educational replies. I had another farrier out today to look over the previous farrier's job and she made a lot of corrections on her feet. Afterword I lunged my mare and though she was still gimping, she appeared to travel a lot more balanced (if that makes any sense at all).

I ended up soaking her foot in epsom salts and she is currently out in a big field where she can move around. Unfortunately I can't make the trip every day to soak and I'm really paranoid about leaving anything on her in the field, so I'd rather not wrap at this time. I plan on heading out every other day to soak her foot but I'm not willing to wrap her hoof up and leave it unattended/unsupervised for 48 hours, especially in a large field environment.

I took pictures of the previous farrier's job but now that the trim has been fixed, I'm not sure if its really worth tossing them up. I could if its requested, but I don't find its necessary now since that particular situation had been handled. New farrier said her feet were pretty uneven and the job looked really rushed.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Okay, please don't hit me! If a horse is lame from an abcess, why trim her? It will be more painful because the sole is closer to the ground.

I would shoe her for a while and give her bute for a week and see what happens. It would also make it easier to pack in some ichthamol , and wrap her hoof to draw that abcess out. Once that's done, stop the bute and see what happens. I would also , abcess gone, start using some durasole to get those soles hardened up, so if you go barefoot again, you have some defense. And biotin.

If your horse CONtinues to get abcesses, she may need shoes to get her soles further off the ground. Barefoot's desirable , but some horses need some methods to stop further damage.

Right now, I have a farrier and a vet that believe barefoot is best unless shoes are really needed, they will say so. That's why I don't have trimmers because I want what's best for my horse-even if it's shoes, and some trimmers will say that it all can be fixed barefoot. Sometimes it can't, or the need for shoes is temporary.

I live in Florida, on sugar sand, or grass. Not really a need for shoes, but would get them in a minute if she needed them.

Food for thought..........
 
#14 ·
According to my farrier shoes are the worst think you can do for an absess depending on where the absess is located because you do not want to put a nail threw the absess. According to him by rupturing an absess via nail entry the possibility for another absess in the same location is very high. The best thing to do is leave them barefoot and do epsom salt soaks and let the absess work its way out naturally. Adding a shoe can also add more shock to the hoof instead of being a shock absorber.
 
#15 ·
Toosexy, good points. Someone I knew would glob ichthamol on and fold up a kitchen towel then duct tape it to the bottom of the hoof. But after the treatment I feel you need the hoof to dry out and harden to prevent the sole from the chronic absessing problem. Hopefully, if shoes are needed, I would hope the farrier would use his hoof testers to make sure he's not near the absess.

I know there are many ways to treat an absess. I think I am focusing more on the future, getting the sole off the ground for a while, and using durasole to harden up that sole so that going barefoot again does not mean chronic absessing for this horse.

I think you have a good point in no shoes during the absess healing. You've got me thinking about other ways to heal then protect the sole (like the kitchen towell method, LOL). After treatment, how would you let the hoof dry out and harden before the horse gets another absess?
 
#16 · (Edited)
What I did with my mare after the absess blew out the bottom, which IMO is not ideal, its hard too keep clean, but after you could visibly and easily see the hole in the bottom of her hoof we had a custom shoe done to where there at the toe of the shoe (where the hole was) was torched out so that even with a shoe you could easily get to and clean the old absess site. I cleaned her hoof twice a day everyday. She was still very tender and showed a slight limp when asked to work. Every morning I would would clean her foot her and do an epsom salt soak and then clean with triodine. At night I would clean her foot again and apply a heavy layer of hooflex and pinetar. She was stalled at night. This was approx. 2 months ago, may have been a little longer but not quite three months. I did NOT trim her for 3 weeks after the absess blew out. After the first trim. 2 weeks after that you could easily see the whole in the bottom of her hoof which was dug out and when the shoe was set only the back six nails were set. The two nails closest to the toe of the shoe were not put in. My mare has extremely rapid hoof growth. She is shod every 5 weeks and an over an inch of hoof is removed each time. So this happened rather fast on her but typically I wouldnt shoe three months after and absess if the horse has slow growing feet cause sometimes the hole from the absess takes longer to appear and some farriers dont like to dig them out. I actually used a denture brush to get up in the hole and clean it out because it has a pointed end with bristles. My horses are always shod due to the extremely rocky areas we ride. Leaving a horse barefoot is one of the easiest and most natural ways of getting a sole to harden back up. It takes longer and sometimes its hard to sit back and watch your horse limp because he is still tender from an old absess but a truly good hard sole on a horse is from leaving them barefoot.
 
#17 ·
In my over 40 years with horses I've had my share of abscesses, and I learned the hard way to:
NEVER let a vet dig for an abscess

Best bet is to not dig for it period, just let it run it's course, soak the foot with a diaper/vetrap/ducttape shoe and a thin, tepid Betadine solution or Epson salt, add this at least twuce a day, turn horse out with herd, and once it pops, dry "boot" for three days. That's it. Oh, tetanus vaccine has to be up to date, very important, I've seen an unvaccinated colt die from tetanus after an abscess.

I've seen horses lame for close to a year with a hole in the foot from digging around, I've seen horses diagnosed with a ruptured tendon and retired from racing, and it was an abscess, I've seen horses ruined from digging and treating it wrong. I had horses who had popped one at the coronary and never did a lame step, and others who were three legged lame for a day had it pop and were sound right away.
All in all, I agree with Trinity and loosie here.
 
#20 ·
It is important that the foot that is abscessing is properly trimmed and not left overgrown. Overgrowth will actually hold one in longer. Its not that the sole is not closer to the ground, its that the hoof is functioning properly. That will help drive the abscess out. I dont see them alot but when I do, this is the protocol that works for me. I try to be minimally invasive and allow the body to heal itself. That is usually the best. Do no harm. IMO digging them out does harm more often than helps. Shoeing a previously bare abscessing foot will keep the abscess in longer also by inhibiting flexing of the foot. Def not recommended by me. Im not anti shoe but barefoot is the way to blow and abscess fast. I think that is why I rarely see them as a rule.

Sometimes you can get an abscess to blow just by applying a proper trim if the hoof is due or overdue. Been there done that at least 4 or 5 times over the years. Lame horse with abscess instantly sound as I trim the problem area (heels and bars are the typical suspects) and the brewing abscess finds an easy exit. I never dig for them but if a normal trim allows them to escape, all the better. Just have to keep the foot clean for a couple days while it drys up typically.
 
#22 ·
Id personally rather have a little slit in the hoof wall that will grow down and cause no issue than a large hole in the sole exposing corium and have to clean protect and wrap and treat etc etc. The risk for infection is much greater when the sole is compromised as well is a weak spot for the horse a long time as the sole takes awhile to fill back in.

IME, abscesses blow within a few days to a week at the very most when treated as i have recommended. One that is taking weeks has probably been over treated or buted or there is something else going on. Most abscesses are small and resolve quickly.

JMO and there are always exceptions
 
#24 ·
An absess IMO is not a huge ordeal. They come they go and yes they are painful. Sometimes you get a horse that is reluctant and will absess again. In my experience they come they go. I have never had issues with long term lameness. There isnt a whole you can really do for them. Soaking them in epsom just helps with soreness and draw the absess out but turning them out in a big pasture and letting nature run its coarse is the best way.
 
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