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post #21 of 35 Old 02-26-2014, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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I was reading something about how central sulcus thrush is too often missed and can be an underlying reason and/or contributing factor for horses who are not landing heel-first. Jayne seemed to be landing flat footed a few weeks ago (haven't looked closely enough to tell recently, though he is moving out, forward and willing in just front boots on grass and concrete) and was starting to get little fleshy frog tags that were trapping bits, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to treat his as though thrush was a problem. I started washing his feet and treating last week.

After a wet week last week, I noticed his RF central sulcus had some tags folding over it with space under which seemed like a text-book setup for infection. I trimmed off some outer frog bits and the loose stuff and found a disgusting smelly pocket of greyish gooey grossness underneath. So I cleaned that out, medicated, and marveled that the sulcus on that foot went nearly twice as deep as I thought it did, probably just about 2cm. His LF frog seemed solid, with a much shallower sulcus.

Until tonight, when cleaning it and the hoof pick 'caught' on an apparently loose edge deep in there and I lifted up on it a bit. The smell immediately hit me, though it hadn't smelled at all until I lifted this flap. So, again, I cut out the grossness, scraped out the decaying frog goo, and medicated it. They might both actually be deep enough to pack with cotton balls, though I would have said you were crazy if you told me that was the true condition of his feet last week. Hopefully it gets above freezing again so I can do a proper job and scrub them out.

I guess I am learning? He, hopefully, will be healing now.
Pictures and a trim this weekend I think.
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post #22 of 35 Old 03-03-2014, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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I have "before" pictures to upload (it's been three weeks since I touched a rasp) and I trimmed him. The barefoot/boot guy was supposed to come out, but didn't, likely to the fact that we're under a winter storm warning, but as I go out into the field and don't know when he can re-schedule, I figured I could/would do it so there's no emergency. "After" pictures will be tomorrow since we've got a snow day now.

I found an abscess drain tract on one rear hoof and way more white line separation than I was expecting on the rear toes. Fronts seemed fairly happy, though the front frogs look very sad since I took out all the thrushy bits... which was most of them. The central sulcus is staying dry and open now though, so I'll take that as a good step. I can actually see widening of the heels in the fronts compared to pictures from 5 weeks ago. The rears still look NPA-ish (convex profile, no real central sulcus), but I don't know what I can do about that other than make sure he's moving and working on comfortable surfaces.

I had a panicky moment though. I finally figured out what is meant by having a nice level rasp stroke by failing at it on one foot and rasping through a bit of the sole. It looked peach colored (rather than white), and made me fear that I had done something terrible, and was too deep and was going to make his sole/wall bleed, and then it would get infected, and his foot would fall off and he would die. Obviously that side of that hoof is not currently nice and smooth now. He trotted sound on the concrete aisle after I was done though, so I guess he will live. He actually was landing more heel-first than he had been earlier in the day. And as I mentioned, he gets the next week completely off since I will be in the field, so, yay for not horrifically maiming my beast?

I feel like maybe I should merge this with Jayne's journal. But then I wouldn't be able to have experts tell me "No, you aren't about to accidentally kill your horse (yet)." LOL. Thank you for all your patience!
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post #23 of 35 Old 03-03-2014, 03:29 AM
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Have to ask, is the gelding named Jayne related to a boy named Sue?? Will be interested to see pics.
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post #24 of 35 Old 03-03-2014, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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A boy named Sue (he was a nervous nellie when I bought him), or this guy (easily bought)
Jayne Cobb.jpg

I lunged him in the indoor and w/t on the snow and ice, and while he is not landing heel first yet, he is a) not landing so obviously toe first, and b) moving out much more freely than he was back when his shoes were first removed 7 weeks ago. And this is the cool thing about all these pictures to me. Check out the change in his heels and the back of his frog on the same left front front comparisons, first from mid-Jan (except the oblique), then today. He's been happy in work the whole time on grass, trail and concrete, just slow over our gravel roads.






And then in the right front heels.



The left rear heel bulbs look like they've relaxed a bit when you compare them to the width of the fetlock?



And I don't even know what was going on here in the right rear. Drained abscess on the lateral quarter, might have been why he was lame for a few days mid-feb. I thought that was a front foot lameness though. Oops.

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post #25 of 35 Old 03-04-2014, 03:49 AM
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Yeah, wouldn't count chickens on heel first landings without padding on those hooves(how old is he again?), but they do look improved. On the note of heel improvement, check out gravelproofhoof.org if you haven't already.
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post #26 of 35 Old 03-04-2014, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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He's just turned nine, and was never shod before I started working him as a six year old. I'll check that site out!

Question: For padding, what do you recommend? Right now when we ride out, he wears Easyboot Edges on the front, and I am looking at getting a pair of Renegades as I know he really needs protection all around. Is there any way to predict if the 'inserts' for those would be helpful or not? I know they're not much, and can't be worn 24/7 like would be helpful/ideal, but I'm just done with looking for competent farriers around here (0 for 6) for a while, so bare + boots is what it is going to have to be. Would it be helpful for him to wear them daily for a few hours in turnout as well?
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post #27 of 35 Old 03-08-2014, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Renegades came in. Tried them on the front and EB on the back, w/t/c/g in the arena and down a wet gravel road and all four stayed in place properly and he moved out without acting footsore or ouchy on the rocks. Going to reverse them f/r tomorrow and see if I get the same results.

I've been suspicious of ruining a good thing by mentioning it, but he's moving better than he ever has in the sense that he's not bracing as much, falling to the inside (especially to the right) and actually has a trot that can be sittable now. These changes have occurred in the past month. No change in diet. He has NEVER had a trot I could sit before, and I usually don't have a problem sitting with most horses, but his just sucked. N=1 and I don't want to be superstitious, but I can't see anything other than this has to be related to his feet in some way?

Anyone have ideas on padding with either the Renegades or EB?
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post #28 of 35 Old 03-09-2014, 03:41 AM
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Hi,

First yes, absolutely horses go better & smoother if they can use their feet properly & comfortably.

Padding - I'd use 'frog support' wedges with him, as his frogs are receded & weak. Just reasonably soft, not too thick closed cell EVA foam rubber. You can get these from Easycare, or from a rubber supplies store, like Clarke Rubber if in Australia. I just glue a triangle into boots they're needed for.

After hearing(& seeing evidence) from Dr Bowker, that due to the textured surface stimulating the neuroreceptors in the frog, even placing terry towelling under the frog of a sore footed horse can really help(saw a seriously hurting chronically foundered horse relax on concrete like that!), I have also been using thin 'squiggly' rubber(don't know what it's called) car floor matting under frogs, be they recessed or not.
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post #29 of 35 Old 03-09-2014, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Like previously stated the frog narrows when shod being that the frog is not used as it should be
Not necessarily. It depends mostly on HOW the foot was trimmed and shod. I actually shoe in a manner that supports the frog and can even ADD more support and stimulation to a frog.

A shoe itself is not the problem in frog contraction . But HOW the foot and frog are prepared for the shoe sure can be, as well as where the toe of the foot or shoe are relative to the center of the coffin joint. (has to do with toe leverage pulling the heels inward at the moment of breakover ) . In this case I am sad to see how much functional frog the farrier removed just because it is traditional for looks .
Those hind feet have the signs of a negative coffin bone angle, and therefore need all the frog support in the back of the foot they can get and it was taken away. It will grow back though . Meantime the heels need a little more trimming and I would like to see more roll across the bottom of the end of the toes to back the breakover point up some.
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post #30 of 35 Old 03-09-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Padding - I'd use 'frog support' wedges with him, as his frogs are receded & weak. Just reasonably soft, not too thick closed cell EVA foam rubber. You can get these from Easycare, or from a rubber supplies store, like Clarke Rubber if in Australia. I just glue a triangle into boots they're needed for.

After hearing(& seeing evidence) from Dr Bowker, that due to the textured surface stimulating the neuroreceptors in the frog, even placing terry towelling under the frog of a sore footed horse can really help(saw a seriously hurting chronically foundered horse relax on concrete like that!), I have also been using thin 'squiggly' rubber(don't know what it's called) car floor matting under frogs, be they recessed or not.
Good ideas . You can also just go the garden section of a home store or wal mart and get those gardner's firm flat foam kneeling pads and cut them up. Easy to find. Cheap, and they work well.
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