Talk to me about navicular.
 
 

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Talk to me about navicular.

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        07-16-2014, 10:23 PM
      #1
    Weanling
    Talk to me about navicular.

    So, I didn't read anything for days after Vinnie's diagnosis.

    And then, I read everything from vets, farriers, trimmers, you name it.

    Now I want some personal stories, and thoughts on mine, as well.

    Here's mine:

    Always sound..
    Bought Vinnie, a 7 year old mustang, in January 2014. He had been started under saddle summer 2013, and was already a great (although green!!!) trail horse that showed a good mind in new situations. He was stocky and comfortable, and a love bug, hence why I bought him.

    He never took a lame step in his old home.

    I took him when I bought him to a barn with an indoor and rode him 4 days a week. We did everything from ground poles to serpentines to figure 8s to small circles when he would try to get a little feisty and want to canter ;)

    He, again, never took a lame step.

    I moved him to a new barn May 1, and rode a few times in the ring where he was completely sound, and a few trail rides where he was sound, but I did notice when he followed other horses he would trip every once in a while. I assumed it was a mixture of new trails, and just following nose to butt another horse.

    Lame after a trail...
    On Memorial Day 2014, I took him for a trail ride. I noticed he felt a little weird on one diagonal, like it was "harder to post" than normal. Then he was INCREDIBLY OUCHY on a rocky portion (he is barefoot), to the point where I moved him over to grass and took an alternate route home. When we got home, I let him go in the paddock and he trotted off lame on his LEFT FRONT.

    He has been varying degrees of lame ever since. I had the vet out twice.

    FIRST VET VISIT
    The first time she came out, he was only a 1/5 and she couldn't nerve block him because she could barely detect his lameness.

    She did flexion tests, and he came up NEGATIVE.
    Hoof testers were NEGATIVE.

    She said he probably had a stone bruise in his left front, and he would be fine. She gave me a five day bute trial, which rendered him sound while he was on it.


    His lameness never got fully better. There were days he would seem completely fine, and then he would be off the next day.

    He always had heel first landings in both feet.

    Second vet visit
    Because the lameness wasn't going away, I had the vet out again. The day she was supposed to come, July 3, Vinnie was nearly completely sound on a circle and on a straight line, so I called and moved the appointment to July 7.

    Sadly (or luckily?), July 7 he was NOT sound, in fact his lameness had progressed to a 2/5.

    The vet was able to nerve block, and when his left front heel was blocked he came up gorgeous-floating-trot-sound.

    The vet took xrays and found bone spurs off the medial/lateral sides of his navicular bone, diagnosing navicular disease, saying he would never be sound without full bars and pads. She said he has probably had these spurs for 5 years or so, and that the trail ride I went on probably aggravated it.

    The spurs do not seem to touch any tendons/ligaments/DDFT, which is one positive thing, I guess.

    She said he MIGHT have the beginnings of a cyst in the middle, but otherwise, the navicular bone itself looks good and there are no "lollipops," etc to be seen.

    She mentioned that his trimmer was trimming him too short, and that his foot was pretty out of balance, so he would need to grow more hoof before he can be shod.


    This extra time allows me to read.. and a LOT that I have read said that even sound horses can have bone spurs off the SIDES of the navicular bone (that usually this comes from an imbalance), and that a balanced trim can KEEP these horses sound. This gives me hope!


    I have not ridden him in almost 2 months, and he is still not fully sound when he trots in the paddock. It's sad :(


    Anyway... hoping to try some treatment options and actually tackle this barefoot, which for sure my vet is going to balk at.
         
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        07-17-2014, 08:10 AM
      #2
    Banned
    It likely a poor farrier or poor farrier schedule contributed to this issue or created it. Whats done is done and if you don't want to give your vets suggestion of shoes a try ( why is the cheapest of the maintenance on these horses ) then you are headed down a road of failure.
    This horse should be seen by a vet, which deals in these problems, and they should be working with their recommended farrier on a treatment plan.
    I showed one for years with shoes/pads done every 4 weeks like clockwork, injections etc. His shoeing needs were 2000 per year and I had another 1500 in vet maintenance
         
        07-17-2014, 08:18 AM
      #3
    Super Moderator
    Please read this blog as it documents barefoot progress and they have incredible success rates with navicular horses which were facing the bullet after shoes failed. Rockley Farm
         
        07-17-2014, 08:18 AM
      #4
    Weanling
    BugZapper- shoes are a bandaid which contribute to the issue. If he needs them, I will use them, but they cause heel contraction, poor heel bulb quality, and ruin the digital cushion of the foot. The decreased circulation (because of the lack of use of the frog and digital cushion) causes the navicular bone to further deteriorate.

    I have no problem with the cost of maintenance. I just don't want to use a palliative method that will only add a few years to his riding, when I have read countless success stories of making navicular COMPLETELY asymptomatic when barefoot (ex/ Pete Ramey, Andrew Bowe, etc).
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        07-17-2014, 08:24 AM
      #5
    Banned
    You need to understand, that if this horse is Navicular, that no matter what you do it is only a patch. There is no stopping this disease. There will come a day, when its game over. Whoever told you shoes contribute to the problem is an idiot at best. What works for one horse, doesnt work for all, but you need to relieve pressure to relieve the pain. As my vet would say, "if you are not going to listen, then why did you ask and stop wasting my time ". He is fine with people getting a second opinion from the top equine hospital we have, but not just blowing his suggestion off.
    Each day you leave this horse lame, the less likely you are of a successful outcome
         
        07-17-2014, 08:29 AM
      #6
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BugZapper89    
    You need to understand, that if this horse is Navicular, that no matter what you do it is only a patch. There is no stopping this disease. There will come a day, when its game over. Whoever told you shoes contribute to the problem is an idiot at best. What works for one horse, doesnt work for all, but you need to relieve pressure to relieve the pain. As my vet would say, "if you are not going to listen, then why did you ask and stop wasting my time ". He is fine with people getting a second opinion from the top equine hospital we have, but not just blowing his suggestion off.
    Each day you leave this horse lame, the less likely you are of a successful outcome

    Not true. Rockley Farm has rehabbed navicluar horse without shoes and they have gone on to have sound successful lives. You are not up to date with current thinking. Even insurance companies and vets now support the barefoot rehab centre Rockley Farm in the UK.
    Trinity3205 and aharlov like this.
         
        07-17-2014, 08:35 AM
      #7
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Clava    
    Not true. Rockley Farm has rehabbed navicluar horse without shoes and they have gone on to have sound successful lives. You are not up to date with current thinking. Even insurance companies and vets now support the barefoot rehab centre Rockley Farm in the UK.



    I am not saying it doesnt work for some, but not all. We do not have the xrays or what this horses feet look like. I am suspecting the happy hacker has been at work trimming and if this horse has no heel left or other issue as the vet has already said the foot is out of balance, that the shoes are to jump start the process. You need foot to trim and if you don't have it the shoes with wedges etc, will offer support until you do
         
        07-17-2014, 08:50 AM
      #8
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BugZapper89    
    I am not saying it doesnt work for some, but not all. We do not have the xrays or what this horses feet look like. I am suspecting the happy hacker has been at work trimming and if this horse has no heel left or other issue as the vet has already said the foot is out of balance, that the shoes are to jump start the process. You need foot to trim and if you don't have it the shoes with wedges etc, will offer support until you do
    The point is, that shoes always fails in the end, barefoot treatments don't always. In this case the horse is the best one to judge what balance they need, but for this is needs appropriate surfaces, diet and movement. You need to read the research, shoes and trimming have not been used in the successful results they have had. Horses there self trim and shoes are always removed. Wedges do not provide any more "support" than the ground does, the horse needs to grow a hoof that is strong healthy and the right shape for the horses issues.
    Trinity3205 likes this.
         
        07-17-2014, 09:14 AM
      #9
    Yearling
    I have a friend whose horse has navicular and was not doing well with shoes. She did her reading and research and came across a certified barefoot trimmer who started coming out and working on her feet, that was back in January. I last saw the horse back in June and she was sound, we went riding on some rocky trails and the horse never took a bad step.
         
        07-17-2014, 09:19 AM
      #10
    Started
    Point is, some horses do better with shoes and some don't, and some do better with shoes just to begin with. So why would anyone with brains or feeling for the horse deny it anything that works, even if it only works for that moment in time?
    sarahfromsc and enc0410 like this.
         

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