Trimming to sole to tighten white line - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 50 Old 02-24-2014, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Since both diet and "mechanical" and "not even there" has been touched on, I thought I would add.....

As I said earlier, when I got her a little over a year ago her feet were extremely long.

Her previous owner fed her sweet feed, which I do not ever feed. Her diet was changed to what I have already posted the day she arrived and I do not feel it is lacking.

I feel it was reasonable to assume that, due to mechanics alone, her white line was stretched when I first got her. And, admittedly, I got so obsessed with the WL that I saw something that wasn't really there. And, after her first trim (performed by a farrier shortly after below photo was taken), I did remove a lot more bar and sole (I took trinity's then good advise to do so). It was not rock hard, then. Either way, loosie suggested a ways back (another thread, same horse) that I take more heel off. I did take it to heart and I tried, but obviously failed in that effort. It will be addressed.

So, not diet. Not even there, apparently.

Same foot (LF) November 2012 (when it was a trick just to get a picture):

left F 3.jpg
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post #22 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 01:51 AM
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i wonder if we are talking the same thing but looking at two differant points?
Clava and I are talking about hoof growth from the top at the hair line and how rubbing in the digestive systom causes ring growths which is a laminitis attack of various degrees.
And some are talking about overgrowth where the bottom of the hoof wall is being pressed away from the sole due too overdue trimming like in the last photo.
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post #23 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthernMama View Post
Patty, Trinity and Loosie have all posted great advice. I hardly ever post about hooves when I see they are on it :) But really, Clava, changing a diet will absolutely not correct stretched white line or any other problem without also proper trimming. First and foremost, these hooves are overgrown and that should and can be dealt with right away.

As for no trimming at all -- only in specific situations. Most domestic horses now are not kept in an environment that will wear the hooves sufficiently that no "artificial" trimming is necessary.

No trimming will cure a detached and stretched white line, but it will sort an over grown hoof. Stretched white line to me (and those I chat with about hooves in the UK) means poor and weak growth as Amigoby has mentioned.

As to not trimming, many domestic and worked barefooted horses in the UK can self trim (mine do), it really isn't that difficult. More difficult if you cannot work them I totally agree, I have my pony and youngster trimmed as they are not worked much.

If more people did the research they would find that there would be a lot less need for so many visits by trimmers or farriers trimming, but trimmers and farriers will not surprisingly often disagree with this.

Last edited by Clava; 02-25-2014 at 03:45 AM.
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post #24 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post

But I KNOW that in absence of correcting the diet, you CAN indeed still correct hoof form, including 'tightening' the 'white line'. I also know that even with a good diet, hooves can absolutely get imbalanced without adequate hoof care.

You will never correct a laminitic hoof by trimming, it will still fail and founder if the diet is not changed. Correct the diet and get the horse moving and heel and toe positions will self correct, but it may take a lot of movement and work, but it will happen.

Last edited by Clava; 02-25-2014 at 03:45 AM.
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post #25 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 07:25 AM
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A white line doesn't grow in stretched. Diet only fixes new growth and the future. Trimming deals with the past. So, if there is a problem with new growth, yes, diet needs to be addresses. But, diet change won't fix stretched white line. As a stretched white line is the past, not the future. If a hoof is weakened by poor diet, then I could see that the hoof would be more susceptible to mechanical stresses, but again that would need to be address with trimming as well as diet change.

There is no indication that the new growth on the OPs horse's feet is a problem.

Of course, proper trimming will protect solid new growth by reducing mechanical stresses.
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post #26 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 07:46 AM
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Diet changes mean that the new white line wont be stretched (when it reaches the ground) as it will have a good tight connection, but if what people are saying that overgrown hooves are what they call a "stretched white line" then that is another matter. Correct movement or trimming will ensure hooves are not over grown.
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post #27 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 10:08 AM
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Ok, for the OP, I'm not going to comment on your post (sorry). Loosie et al have pretty much said it all so I'm not going to jump in with more of the same (but Lord, please take care of those heels).

The only reason I'm bothering to post is to comment on White Line. White Line disease is an infection. No diet in the world is going to kill that bacteria. Horses on wonderfully healthy diets have not only gotten white line, but more importantly, have had it spread and get worse. According to the "diet will fix it" concept that couldn't have happened. It's the same as saying that diet will cause or fix thrush.

loosie and I have beat this to death on other threads, but I'll say it again. While no one who has spent much time dealing with horses (especially their feet) is going to dispute that diet can be a major factor in the health of the equine foot (or at least they shouldn't....although there are some "professionals" who've never seemed to "get it"), the greatest diet in the world will not prevent WLD that is contracted as a result club foot, a long toe, a nail hole (my personal worst case, but I won't get into the woes or reason why horses should not be shod.... that's a different topic that even Xenophon covered about 2500 years ago) or the like.

Diet won't prevent it in any of those sort of cases (which tend to be too common) and diet is not capable of fixing it. If it would we'd all be doing that. In fact, if that was the case, WLD would never be an issue with horses that are on a healthy diet. So the cases that exist with horses that are on a healthy diet could not exist (but clearly they do).

Diet is crucial to good equine foot health, but it isn't a cure all by any stretch of the imagination. It can't "fix" infected areas...unless it somehow causes the equine to create it's own infection fighting, bacteria killing substance that cures the condition...but then if that were the case then no horse on a good diet could never get these infections (so we can stop worrying about it being caused by long toes, etc... and if they do get it don't worry about treating it, since the diet will cure it ....I wish I'd know about all this earlier.....would have saved a lot of work). We know that's not the case, because they have gotten it while on a healthy diet and it doesn't "fix itself".

I've also yet to see any study that shows that proper diet will prevent a horse from getting WLD or cure it (diet can't prevent the bacteria from creating the disease). Unless they've come out with some GMO strain of oats with a bacteria killing trait that gets into the horses system and eventually reaches the foot where it kills the offending bacteria....but then that results in a less than healthy diet that could lead to more foot issues, since grains are bad for horses...that bacterial killing feature of the GMO would also likely attack the bacterial in the horse's hindgut needed to digest fiber....but that's a different topic too .

They're always going to be bigger and stronger so you better always be smarter. (One of my grandfather's many pearls of wisdom)
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post #28 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 10:42 AM
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I don't think anyone has suggested diet will affect WLD, we've been talking about the white line being stretched but not disease of the white line. Diet will mean a tighter white line will grow and so it will be a lot less vulnerable to disease but not a cure.
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post #29 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 01:33 PM
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In THIS case, this white line issue has nothing at all to do with diet. It isnt even a trimming issue as a rule, excepting that the sole needs exfoliated well and live sole found again and then re trimmed to similar parameters it already has. The sole is dead here and needs cleaned out. The white line here at this level is dead and not attached any longer to the dead sole. This is the first step along withbthe shedding around the frog tip where the foot is trying to rid itself of all that extra material and length on its own. As soon as rain comes, the sole would shed out in chuncks revealing the true wall and bar height and it would then attempt to break off the tall bars heels and wall getting the foot back to normal levek. Once removed and living sole is found, you will see healthy attachment again. It's there and appears that it will be quite healthy. Its just hidden. That is what is pertinent here.
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post #30 of 50 Old 02-25-2014, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Clouds, but no rain in site. After we finish building our new shed, I will do a rain dance. :)

waaay OT. I got my phone for the sole purpose it is indestructible, no hoof strike or step can touch it. I got an att text said I could have an upgrade about the time my camera broke. I thought, HOW timely! But, no..I'd have give up my grandfathered plan to get the stinking phone. No thanks. my "real" upgrade isn't until June. I have an old one, same model. I am sure they will switch it for a price. Why send someone such a misleading text?!! I hope it rains on THEM!! So, here I

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