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Update on Candy - Deep Sulcus Thrush

10K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  Trinity3205 
#1 ·
I've been treating Candy for thrush for 60 days now. She has contracted heels, long toes and underrun heels.

I have been using a product called No Thrush daily for 60 days. It is a dry powder treatment and although it was initially great, her hooves have appeared to stop improving.

I am still using No Thrush, but have started with Apple Cider Vinegar soaks and have also tried iodine soaks.

She is going into the clinic on Wednesday to have X-Rays to view any underlying pathology that could be causing the heel pain (ie, navicular).
Needless to say her breeding is definitely a contributer to the problem, halter breed for an enormous, stocky body and tiny teacup hooves.

Anyway, the vet would like to put shoes on her to provide some immediate relief and support, but I prefer a more natural approach with boot therapy and correct trimming if IT IS navicular. Shoes would be difficult to apply at this point in time as she has virtually no weight baring structure (hoof wall). THIS is because she was suffering whiteline on all four hooves after the onset of the thrush, so the farrier removed most of the hoof wall to open the area up to oxygen and prevent further damage..

When she was getting her feet done, there was particular pain in the front left, which he decided to clip as far as possible to the point where she was bleeding to try and encourage what he thought was an abscess out. I poulticed and bandaged this hoof for the next 2 days, no abscess ever appeared. I have not got this farrier back.

After this trim the poor horse could barely walk (bleeding, almost no natural weight-baring structure) and it broke my heart as she was in substantial pain for the next 2-3 weeks. Now that her hooves have grown out a bit she is feeling better, I bought some high density foam from the vet to tape to the bottom of her hooves for 3 days for cushioning and support, the relief was almost instantaneous and after I removed these she was walking 100% better.

I hope keeping positive for Wednesday and hoping for the best, but the horse is showing all clinical signs of navicular... we are just waiting on a official diagnosis now.

I will attach photos, from day 1 of diagnosis through to about a couple of weeks ago. These are the front right, which was the worst originally, now the left is the worst...




 

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#3 · (Edited)
I actually came across the same problem! My lessee reported NoThrush stopped working and so I stumbled across this on Pete Ramey's article (He's well known in the Hoof Community)

"For years I've searched for the perfect thrush medicine. Most products that kill the fungi and bacteria also kill living tissue; contributing to the problem. I use a 50/50 mix of Triple Antibiotic Ointment and Athletes Foot Cream (1% Clotrimazole) (for humans; over the counter at any pharmacy). I mix it thoroughly and put it in a 60cc catheter-tip syringe (available from any vet) (The syringe may well be more important than the cream, as it allows deep penetration to the core of the problem). Mix the products in a Tupperware bowl, then spoon in or 'top load' 15cc with a butter knife. I have my horse owners treat deep into central cleft daily until no cleft is present. No need to squirt it all over the frog; just a pea-sized dab at the very bottom of the central sulcus. To date, I've seen it eliminate deep, sensitive central frog clefts in 100% of cases within 2 months. (A first, with every treatment I've ever used, though past experience tells me we'll never find a product that works on every case in every environment.)"
If you are interested in reading more about hooves (I've been reading close to 4 hours now)
http://tinyurl.com/Hoove-Articles


Will see if my lessee wants to give it a go.

Good luck!! :)

Edit: Wow.. I cannot use grammar at 11:40pm at night LOL.. excuse me!
 
#4 ·


Anyway, the vet would like to put shoes on her to provide some immediate relief and support, but I prefer a more natural approach with boot therapy and correct trimming if IT IS navicular.


What is it that makes you think there is anything "natural" about hoof boots?


Shoes would be difficult to apply at this point in time as she has virtually no weight baring structure (hoof wall). THIS is because she was suffering whiteline on all four hooves after the onset of the thrush, so the farrier removed most of the hoof wall to open the area up to oxygen and prevent further damage..
Notice that the 'whiteline disease', or more specifically, the wall separation that provided opportunity for infection, does not appear until after the first trim (2nd photo).

Nothing was done to address that distal wall separation until the pathology had progressed through the 6th photo (5 trims?).

Even then, the problem was poorly addressed and more importantly, no structural support was subsequently provided after the medial wall was removed. The horse was left to bear all medial load on the sole of the foot.


After this trim the poor horse could barely walk (bleeding, almost no natural weight-baring structure) and it broke my heart as she was in substantial pain for the next 2-3 weeks.
Good example of why I am such a strong advocate of farrier licensing and regulation.

I hope keeping positive for Wednesday and hoping for the best, but the horse is showing all clinical signs of navicular... we are just waiting on a official diagnosis now.
An 'official' diagnosis of navicular disease is rarely definitive, often swamped in the more vague generalization of navicular syndrome. Translation... something hurts in the caudal aspect of the foot but we're not sure what the specific problem is.

I will attach photos, from day 1 of diagnosis through to about a couple of weeks ago. These are the front right, which was the worst originally, now the left is the worst...
What is it about barefoot trimmers that makes them think the distal wall is ornamental? :shock:

This thread could just have easily been titled "How to Transform the Horse Hoof into a Mule Hoof in 7 Natural Steps!".






Should licensing ever occur in the US, it would likely (hopefully) be modeled after the UK system of regulation. That said, the most likely exam criteria would be based on the current AFA farrier certification process.

It's fair to ask, how many practicing 'Natural Barefoot Trimmers' could pass that exam today?

I'd safely bet large sums of money that the answer is zero, zip and none.

Still, horse owners continue to engage these practitioners.

Barnum and Bailey were right. :-(

Cheers,
Mark



 
#7 ·
I see a lot of bar covering over the sole of the hoof. Partial evidence of this is the appearance of the frog is being choked near the apex. Bars will cause navicular pain when they have been allowed to grow over the sole or embed themselves into the sole. I did not read through the entire thread but would imagine this is a problem for any discomfort this horse is having.

Something else that stands out to me about the trim is the medial toe pillar appears to be a bit tall causing separation in the white line.

I would also recommend White Lightning treatments without the use of adding water as per the manfacturers instructiosn and keep the hoof as dry as possible. You could follow up by sifting No Thrush into a diaper and placing the hoof in a Hoof Wrap or Deluxe Equine Slipper to keep them dry throughout the day.

Hope this helps,
Linda M
 
#11 ·
Mark, while I must admit I splattered my monitor with Mountain Dew while reading your unicorn post, I am dismayed by how much you dismiss anyone but certified farriers, like they are the end all/ be all to horse foot care. Niche businesses emerge for the sole reason that there is a need for them. Many people, myself included, have been burned over and over again by certified experts claiming they know everything while nobody else knows squat and keep our horses moving poorly or worse, lame.

In the past week, I have been to two barns and seen two instances where the owner is being absolutely robbed blind by their $200 per shoeing certified farrier. The first horse has been lame for awhile. The farrier says it's not the feet and to check further up in the body. I took one look at the bottom of the feet and saw black, gooey, smelly nectrotic frogs from hell. The poor thing has sulcus thrush so deep in 3 of it's feet, I was able to stick a hoof pick almost 1 1/2" into the heel crack. The sole is so stretched forward, the frogs are like toothpicks. Please tell me how a highly trained certified professional farrier misses something that a first time horse owner saw within seconds??

Another horse I recently saw had heels so high, the frogs were easily 3" off the ground, small as my pinkie finger, and heels so contracted they looked like Chevy Chase's chin. Different farrier, but again, not cheap, knows it all, certified journeyman farrier. The owner has this horse on so many joint supplements because her horse is older (age 7!!!) and seems stiff all the time. Ya think??

I get that you dismiss the barefoot trimmers as hacks that best use their hoof knives for slicing tomatoes, but the claim that a knowledgeable farrier is the equivalent of angels singing...give me a break!

If you truly want to help out horse owners, get together with your expert buddies and devise a standard testing system where farriers must show certain skills and be graded on their work, so when we pick a name out of a hat, there is some data we have to go on other than their name and contact number.
 
#12 ·
Thank you for posting with tact that which I have been yelling at my computer monitor, repeatedly, after reading some of his posts.

And I'm just going to leave it at that, since I have already typed and deleted many paragraphs trying to add my thoughts...you have already stated them much better than I ever could.

:wink:
 
#14 ·
Mark...also in the last picture of the pictures OP first posted....I think I see the bar on the left squashed into the sole....I believe it then continues around the frog apex to the other side? So then the bar needs to be removed until you reach actual sole and is not laid over?
 
#15 ·
*Update*

FYI, just with the photos I've posted, the horse was trimmed twice during this time by two seperate farriers (4 week intervals). Not each photo is after a new trim, it was more to show the development of the thrush and the treatment.

Candy had X-Rays on Wednesday and the vet is not convinced it is navicular (phew).

She has bilaterla forelimb lamesness when places on a circle. The left fore showed signs of a moderate broken back hoof-pastern axis and small digital cushion.
The right fore is slightly better, mild broken back hoof-pastern axis and a small digital cushion.
The left fore shows a mild degree of pedal osteitis with a scalloping of the bone due to toe-first landing.
Her hooves are being compromised due to the way she is walking to relieve the heel pain. She has virtually no heel and the foot lies very flat.

I am very much trusting the vet in her plan of action and she is working closely with the farrier.

I was extremely reluctant in using shoes (have been reading LOTS of Pete Ramey and the horse has been barefoot her whole life) but after they both examined the X-rays the plan was to be:

Therapuetic shoes with a 3 degree raised heel on both fores. The idea is that these will relieve the tension on the navicular structures and the deep digital flexor tendon which is currently under alot of strain.


So, I was convinced into shoes... she doesn't have to have them on forever, just to encourage a normal landing and development of a healthier digital cushion.


Yes, I have concerns for the frog and the sulci as without the pressure release motion (as a barefoot horse) the frog will not develop and the heels are not likely to relax... meaning without maintenance thrush treatment it is likely to return. Candy's frogs are particularily shrivled and were not on the ground in barefoot anyway.. but once the hoof structures are more more-normal I will look at going back to barefoot and developing that frog.


Here are some shots of the new shoes/X-ray of the left fore and some before-the-shoes-shots.
 

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#18 · (Edited)
Much better with the shoes. Shoe job looks good to me, but Ill leave the farrier experts to comment on the skill of application. Id probably fill the soles with SolePak CS to help with the thrush and provide stimulation and cushion while those feet rehabilitate. In this case, I think shoes are a very good option. I have achieved the same result with casting, sole pack and rubber shoes, but its just different means to the same end.

The tell tale sign is...How is she walking? :) Id bet better.
 
#19 ·
She's walking a whole lot better, which is great to see :) The shortness of the stride has stopped and she's gone from being quite sore to running around happy again.

! It never even crossed my mind to pack her soles. Great idea. I will read up on it and hopefully can get some SolePak in Australia, if not I'm sure we have the equivelant.

Were you experiencing a similar problem Trinity?
 
#20 ·
I have rehabilitated similar issues in client horses. I did not use metal shoes however but used casting, Vettec products, and ground control shoes to regain alignment and comfort while the hoof capsule regrew in stronger and more correct.

Im not surprised she is walking better :) Very glad to hear.
 
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