What do you think of his shoe job? Why does he keep pullingn shoes? - Page 2
   

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What do you think of his shoe job? Why does he keep pullingn shoes?

This is a discussion on What do you think of his shoe job? Why does he keep pullingn shoes? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
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    10-25-2013, 06:48 PM
  #11
Trained
^ CLaPorte, they may have been high heeled to start with, what with weak heels, but they've also been made more that way with wedge pads, as a palliative 'navicular' treatment.
     
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    10-25-2013, 06:54 PM
  #12
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
^ CLaPorte, they may have been high heeled to start with, what with weak heels, but they've also been made more that way with wedge pads, as a palliative 'navicular' treatment.
Very interesting.
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    10-26-2013, 09:57 AM
  #13
Green Broke
Farrier took off the other shoe last night, and gave him a barefoot trim all the way around for the winter. I'll get some pictures this afternoon. It was dark when I got home last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
One of the more common corrections for a horse who constantly over-reaches is to dub the toes on the front to ease breakover and sometimes, if that doesn't help, to leave a bit of shoe sticking out behind the hinds to make them land a little shorter. In theory, that should shorten the stride on the hind end where he's not catching those fronts before he can get them picked up. BUT, this is the old cowboy method of correcting that . I'm sure there are other ways that might work better.
Granted I have not seen him do it, but I am suspecting that he is catching front shoes with his other front leg. He does NOT have a long stride (never has) and while it is certainly not impossible and I have no way to prove it, but I'm just kinda doubting he is over-reaching to catch the front shoes.

Plus, it is always the inside part of the shoe he catches. Always. I feel like if he was over-reaching, he may have happened to grab the outside part of the shoe once or twice. But it's always the inside back. I guess that's why I also have a hunch he's not over-reaching and it just catching front feet together.

My farrier doesn't really follow the old cowboy methods for the most part. He'll always tell me about ways he used to do things, before finding a better way which he does now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
Those are some high heels & long, flared toes, so not surprised he's pulling shoes. These sort of angles will also be making 'navicular' & other effects gradually worse, although I appreciate wedging heels is commonly a good palliative for 'navicular' pain.
Flared toes? I'm sorry. I don't see any flare on his toes.

I do agree that his heels can be taken down some, but he would have been due for his trim on Monday (in 3 days) which was 5 weeks from his last trim. But make sure you aren't taking the black pad as part of his heel, which I know matches the black dirt on his hooves that I coulda cleaned off a little bit better. I drew lines where his right hoof actually is, because there's pad between the hoof and the shoe.




In July when I had him at the lameness vet for this issue, the vet did not see any navicular changes in the bone. Of course, we couldn't see what was going on with the soft tissue.

We don't want to keep him in a wedge permanently. I had my farrier pull his shoe and give him a barefoot trim for the winter. I'll get some pictures later this afternoon. Next year I just want to try a "no wedge" shoe and see how he does with that. The shoes are still helpful because we can kinda control how he lands with each foot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CLaPorte432    
I know very little about feet but I do see some major heel...To me, it almost looks like he's standing on his toes. Like "tip-toeing" almost. And his front feet look a lot like my mare's grade 1 Club foot. :-/
He doesn't have a very long toe, but I guess I have never had anyone ever say he has a club foot.

And again, are you counting the pad in with the heel? He is a little "stood up" with the 2 degree wedge but it greatly helped with his lameness so for short-term I wasn't too concerned about it.
     
    10-26-2013, 03:16 PM
  #14
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches
If he's wearing the outside of the shoe quicker than the inside, is the farrier altering his side to side balance for the toe-in? Obviously he doesn't like it. He might like his hooves where they are wearing both inside and outside evenly. Yes, that can cause lameness.

You mis-understood me.

BEFORE I had gotten him shoed, he would always wear the outside of his hooves before the inside, because he is a little base narrow and pigeon-toed. When he is wearing the shoes, obviously his feet stay more even because they are not wearing uneven.

My farrier also specifically places the shoes to help him load and land more evenly. His left shoe he places slightly more to the outside to help balance the way he lands and falls. We can't change the fact that he is pigeon-toed and you can't alter the hoof to make up for it (because you'd just make things worse). But you can change where you place the shoe on the foot to help distribute the stress more evenly.


*************
I don't think I misunderstood you. Just asked if your farrier was doing it . My horse has zig zag joints and a level coffin bone, base wide, and both toes turned out. And she landed equal all the way around. But I also had a farrier for a year insisting that her medial side hooves needed to be higher because of her legs. Barefoot, she did level her feet within the 6 wees.



I just asked if your farrier was trimming him out of balance.
     
    10-26-2013, 07:45 PM
  #15
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
Flared toes? I'm sorry. I don't see any flare on his toes.
...But make sure you aren't taking the black pad as part of his heel,
There is flare but it's mostly at the quarters, not the toe. However need better pics to be positive, but I do think the internal toe is steeper than the wall. I am including the pads in the high heels, because they're effectively part of the heel/angle. I understand the reasons for wedging, just don't agree with them.

I will explain more later. No time now.
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    10-27-2013, 07:47 PM
  #16
Green Broke
Barefoot Trim pictures from yesterday


Front Feet






Right Front



     
    10-27-2013, 07:49 PM
  #17
Green Broke
Left Front









     
    10-27-2013, 07:50 PM
  #18
Green Broke
Hind Feet



Right Hind

     
    10-27-2013, 07:56 PM
  #19
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches    
I don't think I misunderstood you. Just asked if your farrier was doing it . My horse has zig zag joints and a level coffin bone, base wide, and both toes turned out. And she landed equal all the way around. But I also had a farrier for a year insisting that her medial side hooves needed to be higher because of her legs. Barefoot, she did level her feet within the 6 wees.

I just asked if your farrier was trimming him out of balance.
I believe what you are describing is an "old school" way of trimming.

My farrier doesn't do that and he has explained why to me several times. So using Red as an example, where he wears the outside of his hoof faster than the inside on the front. So by the "old school" way of thinking, you would trim the inside shorter than the outside, to make up for how he's going to wear his feet. Well, since you don't trim him balanced in the foot, you've now made something else in his ankle crooked because of the imbalanced hoof, which then makes something off in the knee because of the ankle .... and so on and so forth.

I'd rather have Red trimmed level (when barefoot) and then I touch it up in a couple weeks when it needs it.

This isn't an issue when Red wears shoes, because his feet grow evenly because they aren't being worn uneven by the way he lands. (And we can alter the way he lands by how we place the shoes on his feet.)

Anyway, if I misunderstood you, let me know. But I believe you were talking about that old school method. My farrier doesn't do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loosie    
There is flare but it's mostly at the quarters, not the toe. However need better pics to be positive, but I do think the internal toe is steeper than the wall. I am including the pads in the high heels, because they're effectively part of the heel/angle. I understand the reasons for wedging, just don't agree with them.

I will explain more later. No time now.
Let me know if my new set of pictures is better Loosie, or if you need any other "poses".
     
    10-27-2013, 10:34 PM
  #20
Trained
Didn't get back to you, did I? Now rushing again, but yes, toes look a little stretched & quarters are quite stretched/flared. Need better pics to give proper critique. Check out link in my signature.
     

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