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What should I have him do?

This is a discussion on What should I have him do? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Should i have farrier round off hoofs taking off the flare
  • What does a farrier need at my place

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    03-20-2012, 02:07 PM
  #11
Foal
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by busysmurf    
At this time, I am not in the position to change the schedule. 3 months btwn a trim in winter is pretty standard in my experience. BUT I am hopefully in the position to make firmer demands on what should be done, thus asking for the opinions to make sure that my demands are realistic since I am not a professional farrier. As I stated, the farrier being used is quite good at corrective/reconstructive shoing/work. I am not so convinced in barefeet trimming, as evident by him giving me what I believe is a BS excuse for leaving flares on her feet. I haven't heard of anyone doing that before, thus I am trying to make sure I am not missing something. I think that had the flares been taken care of properly at the end of Nov. This whole post would be a non-issue. But I am asking if anyone is seeing something that I am missing since I AM NOT a professional farrier.

Also as far as a schedule, since this is a newer horse, I haven't yet learned all her natural schedules. The farrier schedule at the barn is out of my hands, my best hope that she doesn't get to long between trims in the future is that it is done properly in the first place.

I have a farrier that I trust & swear by that does the horses at my place. However, he is not allowed on the BO's property because he didn't do things the way the BO wanted, he did them the way he felt would be best for the horse. They disagreed, so not only does he refuse to go there, BO won't let him there.

I'm not trying to be difficult or ask for the impossible. I am simply asking for opinions (since I am not a professional farrier, and I have reservations about the one that is being used) so I can be confidant that I am doing everything that I can to make the best decision for a horse in a difficult and complicated situation.
I can vouch for not taking down the flares all the way. Sometimes you can only go so far with them depending on the hoof wall. I'm not 100 percent on the farriers side either because only he knows if he left them for no reason. I have told some of my customers that had flare outs that I could only go so far on that its not a problem to take them down. Just a process. If I were you, I would remind him next time about the flare outs and see if he can take them down anymore. If he can't and his reasoning is the same as last time then its a pretty safe bet that what he's telling you isn't BS. If he can then great!! Everyones happy
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    03-20-2012, 02:13 PM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip clop    
I can vouch for not taking down the flares all the way. Sometimes you can only go so far with them depending on the hoof wall. I'm not 100 percent on the farriers side either because only he knows if he left them for no reason. I have told some of my customers that had flare outs that I could only go so far on that its not a problem to take them down. Just a process. If I were you, I would remind him next time about the flare outs and see if he can take them down anymore. If he can't and his reasoning is the same as last time then its a pretty safe bet that what he's telling you isn't BS. If he can then great!! Everyones happy
Thank you! At least I now know it may not be complete BS
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    03-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #13
mls
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip clop    
I can vouch for not taking down the flares all the way. Sometimes you can only go so far with them depending on the hoof wall. I'm not 100 percent on the farriers side either because only he knows if he left them for no reason. I have told some of my customers that had flare outs that I could only go so far on that its not a problem to take them down. Just a process. If I were you, I would remind him next time about the flare outs and see if he can take them down anymore. If he can't and his reasoning is the same as last time then its a pretty safe bet that what he's telling you isn't BS. If he can then great!! Everyones happy
Exactly.

Sure - a farrier can remove every bit of hoof possible in order to make it 'pretty' and fit in your version of 'tiny variations' but the horse would likely be dead lame.
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    03-20-2012, 07:28 PM
  #14
Trained
Sounds like perhaps you should be looking for somewhere else to keep the horse. 3 months may be normal in your neck of the woods, but it is very rarely adequate, unless the horse does enough to 'self trim'. You say she's a new horse & you don't yet know her 'natural schedules', so I'd be taking the 4-6 week average & working from there. I'm not 'yelling' just telling it as I see it. If this farrier has already said he doesn't believe in removing flares & you can't get him more frequently, there's not much more that can be done IMO without possibly getting the horse into a worse position by getting him offside.
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    03-20-2012, 11:34 PM
  #15
Foal
Boy! I don't envy this situation you're in at all. It sure could be working out better for the horse. I fear that this horse's feets are falling through the cracks.
IMO, she's gone past needing a trim to needing a rehab process, boots and pads included.
Where's she spending her time? Cause its rotting her feet. What does the rest of her body look like? She needs a darn good set up trim and a few whiteline treatments followed by continued thrush care and a farrier more often.

She has skirted flare at the ground edge because the wall is torquing outward...same as you growing a long finger nail, bending it backwards and walking on it. It hurts and you can take this pain away immediately with a bevel. So, you have to grow flare off the foot, but you can disengage it immediately. This flare has not been disengaged, which is why its gotten worse and no doubt, more painful.
She is also flared forward on long heels, which is not optimal back to front balance. This pulls the hoof forward, out from under the horse's descending weight and all parts and pieces...frog, bars, sole, white line and wall shape all pulled long like a clown's foot and not telling the truth on where they should be anymore....flare forward. This one takes time to remediate and the key to both, is the bevel and keeping it maintained and staying on top of the trim in order to move forward. The thrush is a biggie as well, or your spinning your wheels. Nothing can build, when its being eaten away. She needs more attention.

No, I don't envy this arrangement. It seems that the BO gets to advocate for the horse, for her friend, while the money comes out of your pockets. I really hope you are not over some kind of barrel here.
Was it not worry that brought you here? The only one that can advocate for the horse in the human world, is the one that truly loves him. By posting this thread, have you not done just that....trying to advocate for this horse? Now there's a source of relentless power and nobody should ever, ever have to feel helpless ever! Know your heart. Are you sure this horse can't come home? Tell me not what you can't do, but what you can make happen in the interest of her welfare. Does one not rescue in order to improve a horse's lot in life?


Aw, man! Just about every pathology in the book with thrush leading the way. I couldn't survive this way. My advise is the same as before. Either get her to call in the farrier right away and go there every day to treat for thrush, or take her home, call your own farrier and still treat thrush every day. The health of her hooves are both your responsibilities.


These hooves are a perfect example of why you can't judge a hoof by its cover. The "real" story is on the solar side.
     
    03-20-2012, 11:58 PM
  #16
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by missyclare    
Boy! I don't envy this situation you're in at all. It sure could be working out better for the horse. I fear that this horse's feets are falling through the cracks.
IMO, she's gone past needing a trim to needing a rehab process, boots and pads included.
Where's she spending her time? Cause its rotting her feet. What does the rest of her body look like? She needs a darn good set up trim and a few whiteline treatments followed by continued thrush care and a farrier more often.

She has skirted flare at the ground edge because the wall is torquing outward...same as you growing a long finger nail, bending it backwards and walking on it. It hurts and you can take this pain away immediately with a bevel. So, you have to grow flare off the foot, but you can disengage it immediately. This flare has not been disengaged, which is why its gotten worse and no doubt, more painful.
She is also flared forward on long heels, which is not optimal back to front balance. This pulls the hoof forward, out from under the horse's descending weight and all parts and pieces...frog, bars, sole, white line and wall shape all pulled long like a clown's foot and not telling the truth on where they should be anymore....flare forward. This one takes time to remediate and the key to both, is the bevel and keeping it maintained and staying on top of the trim in order to move forward. The thrush is a biggie as well, or your spinning your wheels. Nothing can build, when its being eaten away. She needs more attention.

No, I don't envy this arrangement. It seems that the BO gets to advocate for the horse, for her friend, while the money comes out of your pockets. I really hope you are not over some kind of barrel here.
Was it not worry that brought you here? The only one that can advocate for the horse in the human world, is the one that truly loves him. By posting this thread, have you not done just that....trying to advocate for this horse? Now there's a source of relentless power and nobody should ever, ever have to feel helpless ever! Know your heart. Are you sure this horse can't come home? Tell me not what you can't do, but what you can make happen in the interest of her welfare. Does one not rescue in order to improve a horse's lot in life?


Aw, man! Just about every pathology in the book with thrush leading the way. I couldn't survive this way. My advise is the same as before. Either get her to call in the farrier right away and go there every day to treat for thrush, or take her home, call your own farrier and still treat thrush every day. The health of her hooves are both your responsibilities.


These hooves are a perfect example of why you can't judge a hoof by its cover. The "real" story is on the solar side.
THANK YOU for your input!! The situation is complicated to say the least. I really can't bring her home (my parents place) right now, we are set up for 3, and have 4 already, Odie, my mom's, & 2 boarders. We had to seperate the boarders horses & ours since Odie was getting pushed off his feed. Maybe this summer I can sweet talk my dad into letting me bring her home. (I may have his favorite granddaughter ask, he spoils her, LOL)

As for Dally, for the time being I'm going to just have to try to do my best to make sure everything is taken care of properly. Basically she stands in a dirt/clay paddock (mud if it has rained). Her body condition is fairly good, a little on the well fed side, but she hasn't been worked in a long time. She is foundation QH built, but has lost the big muscling found with that type, most likely from lack of use. Her hind end is definitely going to need some work. Overall, she looks like any other horse that hasn't been ridden in awhile.

I'm really starting to regret doing this "favor" for the BO/friend Dally is such a good horse and making so much progress I can't in good concious (I can't spell) just walk away from her, but I'm not in the position to remove her from the situation at the time (which is why I wasn't planning on getting a horse in the first place). So much for trying to be a nice person
     
    03-21-2012, 12:10 AM
  #17
Yearling
OK, another stupid question. Until I can get this whole mess straightened out (try to get her on a shorter schedule), what can I do in the meantime? Please don't shoot me for asking this, but the farrier I prefer to use taught me how to do some minimal nipping and rasping in case of emergency. If I file just a little (and I mean little) downward just to hit the flares a little, and round off the edges, and then file around the sole a little (basically try to keep it looking like a new trim) am I asking for more problems, will it make a difference, or even if I am unsuccessful in getting her on a shorter schedule should I just leave it alone?
     
    03-21-2012, 02:32 AM
  #18
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by busysmurf    
OK, another stupid question. Until I can get this whole mess straightened out (try to get her on a shorter schedule), what can I do in the meantime? Please don't shoot me for asking this, but the farrier I prefer to use taught me how to do some minimal nipping and rasping in case of emergency. If I file just a little (and I mean little) downward just to hit the flares a little, and round off the edges, and then file around the sole a little (basically try to keep it looking like a new trim) am I asking for more problems, will it make a difference, or even if I am unsuccessful in getting her on a shorter schedule should I just leave it alone?
If you can do that, better than nothing & at least you should be able to prevent the mechanics getting worse in the meantime. While I don't like the idea of people doing this without some good training, I'm all for owners learning for themselves & in the meantime, as I said above, IMO it's likely better than nothing even without training, so long as you don't touch sole & try to keep the feet pretty level.

I wouldn't worry so much about addressing the flares from the top though, as in rasping the walls to look straight - that is more of a cosmetic effect(there is more to it, but basically...). Instead, if you nip the ground surface to near the outer sole level all round, then nip/rasp the walls on a bevel/roll from the disconnected 'white line', around the front half of the feet at least, that should go a way towards relieving a lot of the unhealthy mechanical stresses. In addition to that, if you can't make the situation any better & you're willing to put in the effort, learn all you can on hoofcare principles & work towards maintaining them yourself I reckon pete Ramey's hoofrehab.com is a great place to start & his dvd set 'under the horse' is quite comprehensive.
     
    03-21-2012, 02:37 AM
  #19
Trained
Oh, BTW, no stupid questions, only the necessary but unasked can be classed as that IMO! I think the misunderstandings came about due to you trying to save words.... when your words & pics are all we have to go on on a forum, so it is best to explain the fuller pic, to reduce the misunderstandings & assumptions.
     
    03-21-2012, 03:17 AM
  #20
Foal
How long before the farrier is due to come back? If you expressed concern, would the BO call him early? Doesn't hurt to ask. He has to disengage the flare with a bevel, though and you must do the thrush care. Doing the thrush care right now means the hoof will be that much more fit for a better set up trim. After that, the thrush care will be easier, but keep at it until there is no central sulcis crack and frog is 3x the size it is now.

Be careful about picking up a rasp and touching her feet. With a farrier that belongs to the BO, you could be stirring up a bees nest. The set up trim is serious business and I would wait and ask if he will show you how to maintain the trim. If he agrees, then all is well and you'll have instruction and agreement all in one about it. Tell him that you have engaged serious thrush care already and are determined to see this horse improve. After the trim, measure her size.... Easy care Rx boots and take her for walks daily. With the boots on, on firm, level ground, asphalt driveway etc. 30 minutes of walking, called Promenade Walks. You need the movement to develop. So take her for a walk. I bet she'd like nothing better than to get out of there and see new sights. Must move. After the trim, find comfort, then move and work that trim. Why is she in a dry lot anyway? Can you get her into a stall atleast overnight to dry out and give you half a chance with the thrush? Or it would be nice if you could dump a small load of pea gravel in her dry lot. That would help greatly with development and thrush. Even if it was a couple of wheel barrow loads 4" deep and 3' by 3' in size, I bet you'd find her preferring to stand on it.

I heard of one boarding situation once where the BO did not agree with pea gravel, so the boarders got together and rented a stall, filled it with pea gravel and took turns putting their horses on it for the benefit. Where there is a will, there's a way. So don't let "I can't" stop you cold. Explore options to get around that brick wall and keep going. Otherwise, your sitting in a mud puddle not going anywhere, just like the horse. It never hurts to just ask....its a start.
     

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