What will make the frogs grow faster & healthier? - Page 2
   

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What will make the frogs grow faster & healthier?

This is a discussion on What will make the frogs grow faster & healthier? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Idodine to make hooves grow
  • Iodine for horse frogs

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    07-09-2012, 04:39 PM
  #11
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhorselady    
Has anyone else used DMSO on frogs? I have tons of betadine paint and betadine scrub....can I use one of those too to help with thrush?
he specifically said to use the highest strength of IODINE... not sure what the difference is in betadine? But I think it is weaker...and the DMSO is supposed to make the hoof absorb the iodine faster... any "old timers" on here should agree with DMSO...I think?
     
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    07-09-2012, 04:41 PM
  #12
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRichmond    
Hi,

I would lower his heels and bars more, so once the frog grows it can touch the ground and pump as nature intended. You can use pine tar for the frog meanwhile.
pine tar...? just paint it on now in addition to the DMSO/iodine? Or pine tar one day, then DMSO/iodine the next?....
     
    07-09-2012, 04:47 PM
  #13
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljazwinski    
he specifically said to use the highest strength of IODINE... not sure what the difference is in betadine? But I think it is weaker...and the DMSO is supposed to make the hoof absorb the iodine faster... any "old timers" on here should agree with DMSO...I think?
and.... in 2 years I have used EVERY thrush med sold at TSC... NOTHING has ever worked like the DMSO/iodine... the smell and squishy look was gone within 3 days!!! I still continued on to 7...and now am doing every other as instructed by the farrier....
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    07-09-2012, 10:15 PM
  #14
Yearling
You have deep sulcus thrush there. Google it. It will take dedicated treatment to get rid of it. It will not be gone in a week or even two or three...It will absolutely take several months of dedication and then regular inspecion and cleaning to keep it gone wh8ile a new healthy frog grows in. Also, the farrier needs to clean the horses bars and take them down for sure. They have grown like a wall around that painfful thrushy frog and are helping to keep it that way and retaining sole as well.

Best thrush treatment IME is cleaning with SOAP. I put several teaspoons of dawn in a spray bottle of water and blast the crap out of the frog scrubbing it well every day. If there is deep sulcus thrush and it is painful, use dry cow mastitis cream or "ramey goo" and stuff it in the fissure with cotton balls behind it to hold the m,eds in and help open the crack till they wont stay in any more.
     
    07-09-2012, 10:40 PM
  #15
Foal
Thank you...I have been washing them out with the water hose... but will start with dawn dish soap now... also I hate to go against what the "new" farrier said to do, but? What do you think about the DMSO/iodine mix? Should I still use that and then fill them with the dry cow?
     
    07-10-2012, 04:10 AM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRichmond    
I would lower his heels and bars more, so once the frog grows it can touch the ground and pump as nature intended. You can use pine tar for the frog meanwhile.
Pump? As in the old theory that a horse has 5 hearts? Thought that idea was put to bed a while ago. I think it looks like the heels *could* maybe do with being slightly lower, but wouldn't want to say definitely from only those pics. Also considering how painful those frogs are likely to be & how weak his whole heels, if it's been a long term thing, regardless of how 'ideally' you may trim his hooves, he will probably still walk on his toes due to pain. IMO it can sometimes be advisable to leave heels a tad higher while the caudal foot is not strong enough to support the horse.

While maintaining a decent trim is important, IMO the prime consideration should be treating the thrush. I don't know much about DMSO except that it's touted as a 'cure all' including antiseptic, so it could be OK. I don't know about the ongoing use of iodine on such deep thrush, as iodine will damage/inhibit growth of healthy tissue. Also iodine only tends to work on initial application - is deactivated with dirt & such & I'd be wanting something that's going to 'keep on keeping on' better. I'd personally think about soaking in a strong saline solution and using the dry cow ointment or such. The ointment being thick & greasy should stay on the outside for a short time at least & sink in a bit, but in the central sulcus it will remain for some time if the horse isn't in deep mud, etc. It is also non-necrotising, so won't inhibit healthy growth.

Be interesting to see some recent pics, as if your farrier has told you the thrush is under control & you're saying frogs are dry & hard, I'm presuming the pics are pre-treatment? BUT your farrier has also told you thrush is stinky or gooey, which it often is, but not necessarily. It's also not accurate that it will take a frog a year to grow.

As for what you can do to help promote healthy, fast growth, Environment & lifestyle is important. A dry environ & lots of *comfortable* exercise is great, as the more exercise/stimulation, the more growth. It would be best if your horse could be turned out 24/7, particularly if you aren't otherwise able to exercise him daily. Dry environment best if poss. From the point of view of his feet, standing on dry sand would be helpful... but obviously you don't necessarily want your pastures to be decimated to that degree either. When you work him, I'd be inclined to use hoof boots with soft frog pads, to protect his frogs and provide more comfortable stimulation for the recessed heels.

Diet & nutrition are also very important. Well balanced nutrition is one thing. I don't know what Simplify is & it depends what is in your hay & pasture, along with the rest of his diet as to whether he gets the right amounts/mix from the supps to provide balanced nutrition. Feedxl.com is one great source of working out the nuts & bolts of that. I wouldn't be feeding him sweets, but the rest of his diet ingredients may be fine. I notice you soak the coastal hay. Is this because he's overweight or IR, or another reason? Depending on what type of grass, it can be very low in calcium, but alfalfa is high in Ca, so you may find it balances OK.
     
    07-10-2012, 08:35 AM
  #17
Trained
Yes, the thrush is your big battle still. I don't see dry, hard frogs. I see severely thrush infected frogs.

I would not use DMSO myself. The stuff scares me. It is a poison and it is absorbed into the soft tissue. IMO, it may well be destroying any good tissue that is trying to grow back.

I am of the soap and water persuasion. I would actually use lysol, not dish soap in the water. Wash with a stiff brush with lysol/water. Then I would soak the feet for 15 minutes in a lysol/water soak only once. After that wash twice daily with lysol/water. Rinse and apply the mastitis cream or any anti-fungal cream (athlete's foot cream works).

As posted, this is going to take some serious time. The trim itself could use some tweaking, but I don't think the trim is the problem.

If these are the "after thrush" pics, you also need to stick your farrier's nose into your horse's feet and let him have a nice big whiff.
     
    07-10-2012, 01:22 PM
  #18
Foal
Ok...lysol sounds like a good idea... how much lysol should I put in the soak? Will 50/50 be good? And yes, these are very recent pics...In my post I didn't mean to say the thrush was gone? But under control I guess...the frogs (to me) are hard and dried... they have "shrunk" or "shriveled" up... there is no smell anymore though....and I really believed that if the "smell" was gone, then so was the thrush...I have just been washing his feet with a water hose (per my ex farrier's instructions) 2 - 3 times a week... last night I scrubbed them with dish soap, dried them the best I could and 30 mins later they were full of crap again, so? I do like your lysol idea...but why only soak once? Can I soak one day, then just wash one day? Also, I did at one point use athlete's foot spray, but really never saw improvement...
So, today my new regiment will be, wash & scrub, lysol soak, dry, dry cow cream every day....
     
    07-10-2012, 02:41 PM
  #19
Foal
From a farrier's point of view, I see a lot of extra sole. That ideally, should be removed. Doing this will bring the frog closer to having ground contact, which will in turn, cause the frog to have more blood flow, and speed up growth and overall health tremendously. However, I would also recommend, as an extra caution, about every other day, take about a cap full of bleach and mix it into approximately 8 ounces of water, and apply liberally to the frog to defeat any possible fungus that might be eroding it. As an additional side note, if the horse is kept in a wet environment, it would be beneficial to change that, in order to remedy the situation. A horse kept in a wet stall, or paddock will develop a frog that is very unhealthy. Also, my experience shows horses that get plenty of exercise, have healthier frogs. Is the horse standing stationary a lot?? Just something to think about.
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    07-10-2012, 05:10 PM
  #20
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljazwinski    
ok...lysol sounds like a good idea... how much lysol should I put in the soak? Will 50/50 be good? And yes, these are very recent pics...In my post I didn't mean to say the thrush was gone? But under control I guess...the frogs (to me) are hard and dried... they have "shrunk" or "shriveled" up... there is no smell anymore though....and I really believed that if the "smell" was gone, then so was the thrush...I have just been washing his feet with a water hose (per my ex farrier's instructions) 2 - 3 times a week... last night I scrubbed them with dish soap, dried them the best I could and 30 mins later they were full of crap again, so? I do like your lysol idea...but why only soak once? Can I soak one day, then just wash one day? Also, I did at one point use athlete's foot spray, but really never saw improvement...
So, today my new regiment will be, wash & scrub, lysol soak, dry, dry cow cream every day....
I would use about 25% lysol and 75% water for the soak. I say to soak only once because lysol will kill all bacteria after 10 minutes. I don't like to do anything that kills everything more than once. We don't want to damage any healthy tissue that is there. For the wash you can use 50/50, but I don't know that it would really be any more beneficial. The trick is to clean the hooves and frog well before you wash. When I had a bad spell with my horse's thrush, I would wash first with dishsoap & water, rinse well and then wash with the lysol. Rinse well; dry and apply cream. The first wash would get rid of the initial dirt so I felt that the lysol had a better chance of getting into and under where the thrush is hiding. I suppose that doing a soak after 10 days or 2 weeks would be OK, but the daily cleaning and treatment along with regular farrier visits are the tricks to beat this.

And yes, it is hiding -- that's why you can't smell it. Or, you are used to it. It's amazing when you open a pocket of thrush with a hoof knife, how the smell all of a sudden rushes out. There are a zillion pockets for the thrush to hide in your horse's feet. Scrub well! The frogs haven't dried and shrivelled up, they have deteriorated from the thrush. Possibly your new farrier tried to cut away as much as he dared to expose thrush pockets. It's a long road... got to get rid of the bad stuff fast enough to let the good stuff grow in.

Your latest farrier is correct in saying the thrush is severe; I just don't agree with the DMSO.

Oh and a trick -- I use a "hard" toothbrush to apply the creams. I find it gets into the crevices better than qtips or fingers. I buy a few at a time and keep them wrapped in plastic in the barn so they don't get any dirt on them; a bit obsessive, I suppose.

Your original question about diet to help with frog growth -- I don't know of anything specific. I didn't see any mention of minerals in your diet for him. I put out Hoffman's free minerals and free salt as well. The horse I have now was a real battle with her hooves (WLD, thrush...), but once I started with the Hoffman's minerals I finally got ahead of the game.
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