What is wrong with these front feet? - Page 2
 
 

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What is wrong with these front feet?

This is a discussion on What is wrong with these front feet? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Sole pack for horses forum
  • What is wrong when your toes can't support your weight

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    05-31-2012, 08:33 PM
  #11
Foal
Leaving the sole weight bearing like that reduces circulation and can lead the bone loss and abscesses from such.
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RunSlideStop likes this.
     
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    05-31-2012, 08:39 PM
  #12
Weanling
Good to know. How would a person increase blood flow in the hoof then? I have heard many theories that the frog touching the ground has little effect on blood fliw, and others swear by it. Curious?
     
    05-31-2012, 09:04 PM
  #13
Foal
Positive frog contact can help support the internal structures in horses that can bear it. There's a limit to it in other words. That support can take pressure off the leading edges of the coffin bone keeping it from compressing the blood vessels surrounding it.

In horses with decent feet, good balanced trim and excercise.
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    05-31-2012, 09:14 PM
  #14
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPLdyCop    
Oh needs a proper trim all the way around. The issue isn't just the dorsal wall.
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So the barefoot trimmer is not trimming him correctly? I don't remember exactly when he was here last but it was somewhere around 4-5 weeks, so those pictures I posted have 4-5 weeks of growth.
     
    05-31-2012, 09:19 PM
  #15
Foal
Looks like most are saying fix the thrush crack. As far as the sole, what is to be done about that? I distinctly remember the trimmer saying that he doesn't like to trim the sole unless he has to. He wants the sole to wear off on its own. I mentioned something last time he was here about the big toe callous and he took it down a little bit. The trimmer didn't seem like he was too bothered by it.
     
    05-31-2012, 09:25 PM
  #16
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSlideStop    
Sole is protruding past the wall, no wonder! Also looks possibly laminitic/foundered in the past maybe? Contracted heels a bit as well. I would stay off of him until he grows out a bit more. Either farrier trimmed back the wall on purpose to get the sole touching the ground to get blood moving and get the wall to grow out more, or they did it on accident and now your boy is ouchy.

Just my unprofessional two cents.
I don't know about past founder/laminitus as I have owned him just over a year. Another thing, he has never been sound since I pulled the shoes. For example, just before the last trim I watched him lope over some bigger gravel(1 1/4") without slowing down while out in the pasture. Right after the trim he walks slow over it picking his way. Head goes way down and and he winces once in a while. He will barely lead over the rocks on the way into the trainers arena.
     
    05-31-2012, 10:36 PM
  #17
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aer212    
I don't know about past founder/laminitus as I have owned him just over a year. Another thing, he has never been sound since I pulled the shoes. For example, just before the last trim I watched him lope over some bigger gravel(1 1/4") without slowing down while out in the pasture. Right after the trim he walks slow over it picking his way. Head goes way down and and he winces once in a while. He will barely lead over the rocks on the way into the trainers arena.
Yikes, Well the horse needs shoes. No you can't just hack away at that dropped sole there likely isn't any sole depth. Chronic Laminitic just means a horse that's had a laminitic episode in the past and is stable. The horse likely still rotated to some degree and or sunk. The coffin bone is taking a beating with every unsupported stride at this point. Circulation is compromised and demineralization (bone loss) is probably occurring.

The problems I see with the trim are that the wall is lower than the sole level, the heels are left run forward, and maybe quarters scooped with the dorsal wall and heels looking that way. But that I can't really see.
     
    05-31-2012, 10:39 PM
  #18
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aer212    
So the barefoot trimmer is not trimming him correctly? I don't remember exactly when he was here last but it was somewhere around 4-5 weeks, so those pictures I posted have 4-5 weeks of growth.
That makes it more disturbing that it's a 4 to 5 week old job.
     
    05-31-2012, 11:35 PM
  #19
Trained
Hi,

Haven't read all replies thoroughly, so in addition... or subtraction to them...

Firstly, from just a few pics & a little info, many things are unknown & can be misinterpretted, aside from differences of opinion & experience, so bear that in mind when reading/learning/asking. More pics and info would help if you want more specific opinions & doing some study for yourself into hoof health would help you & your horse.

It appears the soles are quit thin & 'dropped', at least in the front half of the foot and there is some separation & flaring. It also looks like the frogs aren't too bad, but have possibly recently come from 'bad' & that central sulcus may be harbouring thrush. With the toe wear & look of frogs, I'm guessing he's 'tippy toeing', perhaps because of heel sensitivity.

It's unclear to me, with these pics only & it being an older job, whether the trimmer has done a good or bad job. However, if the horse is always sore after a trim, while there can be exceptions, that generally means something may not be right with the trim. Be interested to know what they've said/advised? How often is the horse trimmed? I'd be inclined to trim little & often on these feet until they become healthy.

The horse could be in this shape due to his diet & environment, other factors that have led to laminitis, could be due solely to bad mechanics, etc. While trimming & supporting/protecting the feet adequately can go a long way, if the cause is laminitis or such, addressing the underlying cause is also vital.

I would not ask a horse in that state to work barefoot on hard/rough ground, as he won't be using & therefore developing health in his sensitive heels, and his thin soles leave him at risk of stone bruises, abscesses & worse. IOW, it's not even about 'transitioning' to bare, at least until you can get the feet healthy & functional first. As steel rims provide no protection or support to the underside of the foot, I'd go for hoof boots as a first choice or at least shoe with pads.

Quote:
Leaving the sole weight bearing like that reduces circulation
IMO the sole & entire bottom of the foot is meant to bear weight - I don't believe god/mother nature would have put it there otherwise, for one. But it is all meant to *share* weight distribution and no area be under constant or excessive load. I think peripheral loading - forcing the walls to bear the entire load & leaving the underside without support is what can really effect circulation. So saying, as I said, the sole should be sharing, not taking the full brunt any more than the walls, and a sole in this condition, IMO is definitely needing padded support to bear the load without further damage, until (tightly connected) walls can share the job.

Quote:
As far as the sole, what is to be done about that? I distinctly remember the trimmer saying that he doesn't like to trim the sole unless he has to. He wants the sole to wear off on its own. I mentioned something last time he was here about the big toe callous and he took it down a little bit. The trimmer didn't seem like he was too bothered by it.
I agree with the principle of not trimming sole unless absolutely necessary. That you commented on the 'toe callous' and your trimmer obligingly trimmed a bit rings loud warning bells to me. Like I said, from only a few pics & little info, could have a different idea about what is actual, but it appears that far from being calloused excess sole that can afford to be trimmed, there may be very little material covering a 'sunken', protruding pedal bone!

That he 'didn't seem concerned' is not necessarily an indication that he wasn't, and many farriers aren't very communicative with their owners, but I personally think it's vital to inform owners of the state of affairs as I see it. After all, you can only start helping your horse if you can learn what's what.

Hoofrehab.com is one good place you can start learning more.
     
    05-31-2012, 11:58 PM
  #20
Foal
Quote:
Leaving the sole weight bearing like that reduces circulation

IMO the sole & entire bottom of the foot is meant to bear weight - I don't believe god/mother nature would have put it there otherwise, for one. But it is all meant to *share* weight distribution and no area be under constant or excessive load. I think peripheral loading - forcing the walls to bear the entire load & leaving the underside without support is what can really effect circulation. So saying, as I said, the sole should be sharing, not taking the full brunt any more than the walls, and a sole in this condition, IMO is definitely needing padded support to bear the load without further damage, until (tightly connected) walls can share the job.

You are correct that the sole shares weight bearing with the wall. It also does so with the frog. The quote states "Like This" which was in reference to this hoof.

I disagree of course on the peripheral loading comment. An open shoe still packs with dirt like a bare hoof. And on hard surfaces it does not, like a bare hoof as well. Pads limit that function and horses benefit from a support material under the pad.
     

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