What's the difference? - Page 3
 
 

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What's the difference?

This is a discussion on What's the difference? within the Hoof Care forums, part of the Horse Health category
  • Why wouldnt u hot shoe a horse if u have a forge
  • Keggers in horse's hooves

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    03-25-2012, 12:57 AM
  #21
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
I agree clip clop. You sound like you've been around the block and went through the whole "Gotta have a forge to be a real farrier" stage. I have too. I made more shoes the first year I worked than I have in all other years combined. Because after a while I realized every horse doesn't require a set of handmade shoes.

As I said in my first post, forging is the way to go if you're making shoes. It's handy to be able to make what you need. Forging's awesome if you like to "blacksmith". My dad loved it. He's spend hours making shoes, even after working under horses all day. Even had a coal forge at home, as well as the gas forge in the truck. But I soon saw that people don't appreciate paying twice as much for handmade shoes, when they can get machined shoes that work just fine. I do believe it's important to know forging techniques, but you're right....you can buy most of what you need. Modify them with power tools if necessary.

So for me, forge work isn't necessary anymore. I'd rather work on more horses in a day than charge more per head. Especially in the hot summer. I git my fan pointed just right and shoe away! Give them a good job for a regular price and everybody's happy.
Yep!! I thought I was the only one on here that thought that way.
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    03-25-2012, 01:14 AM
  #22
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazinCaucasian    
I agree clip clop. You sound like you've been around the block and went through the whole "Gotta have a forge to be a real farrier" stage. I have too.
Now that's some funny stuff right there! So you figure that as a farrier "matures" they reach the point where a forge isn't important, huh? I think you guys have it backwards.

Quote:
I made more shoes the first year I worked than I have in all other years combined. Because after a while I realized every horse doesn't require a set of handmade shoes.
Or maybe you realized it's just too hard? I see lots of guys start their first year on the right track then... well, it goes downhill from there.

Quote:
As I said in my first post, forging is the way to go if you're making shoes. It's handy to be able to make what you need.
Or more to the point, it's handy to be able to provide the horse with what it needs, regardless what store bought inventory you may or may not have in the truck.

Quote:
Forging's awesome if you like to "blacksmith". My dad loved it. He's spend hours making shoes, even after working under horses all day. Even had a coal forge at home, as well as the gas forge in the truck.
Sounds like your dad understood the value of craftsmanship. Shame he didn't pass that value on.

Quote:
But I soon saw that people don't appreciate paying twice as much for handmade shoes, when they can get machined shoes that work just fine.
You're missing the point. The idea is to differentiate yourself from the "cold bangers", the "iron hangers", the "weekend warriors" and the "backyard hacks". Yep, keggers can work fine for a lot of horses and I carry a good inventory of them. Every one of them gets forged to the individual needs of each horse. I don't charge extra for doing that either. It's supposed to be part of the job.

Quote:
I do believe it's important to know forging techniques, but you're right....you can buy most of what you need. Modify them with power tools if necessary.
What power tools are you using to add mass and/or volume to a given section of shoe? Put clips where you need them? Roll a toe without losing mass in the section? Rocker a toe? Extend heels or build a trailer? Lateral extensions? Nail holes where you need them? Are you really turning #3 DF's cold? Are you just banging out a truck full of St. Croix lights and nailing 'em up with Capewell city head fives?

Quote:
So for me, forge work isn't necessary anymore. I'd rather work on more horses in a day than charge more per head. Especially in the hot summer. I git my fan pointed just right and shoe away! Give them a good job for a regular price and everybody's happy.
Oh yeah, I'd much rather whack-and-tack 10 for $50 bucks each than forge quality fit shoes for 5 at a $100 a piece. Yep, that makes all kinds of sense.

Walmart horseshoeing.

Cheers,
Mark
     
    03-25-2012, 01:43 AM
  #23
Foal
There a million right ways of doing this and everyone has their way. My customers are happy with my work, they see results when correcting a hoof issue and they wouldn't change farriers if one begged them to. That's all that matters to me! Oh, if Wall Mart sold shoes, I'd definitely go there to buy em along with my groceries!!
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    03-25-2012, 03:01 PM
  #24
Yearling
Guess I'm a Wal-Mart horseshoer too clip clop.
     
    03-25-2012, 09:38 PM
  #25
Foal
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    03-26-2012, 12:08 AM
  #26
Trained
Coming from the point of view of a client, I would not hire a farrier to cold shoe a horse. If the horse is so "non-complicated" that the farrier will not even start up his forge, then why is the horse getting shoes in the first place?? If I have discussed with my vet and coach, and the farrier agrees that the horse needs shoes and I am shelling out money for them, they will be fit correctly to the hoof with the proper balance and clips. I would rather pay $150 for a set of well fit fronts every 6 weeks than pay $80 and have the farrier out every week or two nailing a shoe back on.
     
    03-26-2012, 12:44 AM
  #27
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
Coming from the point of view of a client, I would not hire a farrier to cold shoe a horse. If the horse is so "non-complicated" that the farrier will not even start up his forge, then why is the horse getting shoes in the first place?? If I have discussed with my vet and coach, and the farrier agrees that the horse needs shoes and I am shelling out money for them, they will be fit correctly to the hoof with the proper balance and clips. I would rather pay $150 for a set of well fit fronts every 6 weeks than pay $80 and have the farrier out every week or two nailing a shoe back on.
Whoa there now annie. There are some out there that can colt fit one to a T. Granted those are hoses that require no mods to the shoes, but just the same, they can be fit as good cold as hot. Not to say your wrong, the customer is allways right,,,,,,,,,,,,,to a point.
     
    03-26-2012, 01:00 AM
  #28
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by bntnail    
Whoa there now annie. There are some out there that can colt fit one to a T. Granted those are hoses that require no mods to the shoes, but just the same, they can be fit as good cold as hot. Not to say your wrong, the customer is allways right,,,,,,,,,,,,,to a point.

IMO there is no horse that doesn't require mods to the shoes. If it doesn't require mods, it probably doesn't need shoes in the first place.

I bet my farrier probably could fit a cold shoe really well but in his words, "I really don't like pounding on cold steel and propane is cheap". He hot shoes everything and gets a great fit out of the shoes, and out of the 5 farriers that come out to our boarding stable to shoe horses, is the only farrier that has never had a client's horse lose a shoe.
     
    03-26-2012, 03:43 PM
  #29
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bntnail    
Whoa there now annie. There are some out there that can colt fit one to a T. Granted those are hoses that require no mods to the shoes, but just the same, they can be fit as good cold as hot. Not to say your wrong, the customer is allways right,,,,,,,,,,,,,to a point.
I'm just going to add this, with my LITTLE knowledge of shoeing... The farrier that takes care of the horses at my parents (the 1 I LOVE), will make a few "tweeks" on 1 of Odie's shoes (when I had them on). And when I say "tweaks" I mean he wanted the heel of the shoe brought in less than an 1/8", so he would do that cold. But he wanted it to be perfectly lined up. To me it made sense to just hit the shoe a few times for that little amt of adjustment than to bring out all the stuff to heat it up.

Don't know if that makes sense, or even is important at this point, but I thought I'd share, LOL
     
    03-26-2012, 07:38 PM
  #30
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
IMO there is no horse that doesn't require mods to the shoes. If it doesn't require mods, it probably doesn't need shoes in the first place.
I might remember one or two times in my career where a shoe fit "close enough" out of the box. In such cases, it is almost invariably a hind.

Even with a "close enough" fit, I'm still going to box, safe and forge sole relief into the shoe. You can do those mods cold with a rasp or grinder. I find it easier to just heat the shoe up, get the "close enough" even closer, then forge those mods while the shoe is hot. Add a short burn and you get the benefit of a perfect mate between the shoe and the foot.

As to the suggestion that if a shoe doesn't require mods, the horse probably doesn't need shoes in the first place, I'd respectfully disagree. I shoe a lot of horses for performance and comfort reasons that are largely independent of the modifications I make to the shoes.

Quote:
I bet my farrier probably could fit a cold shoe really well but in his words, "I really don't like pounding on cold steel and propane is cheap". He hot shoes everything and gets a great fit out of the shoes, and out of the 5 farriers that come out to our boarding stable to shoe horses, is the only farrier that has never had a client's horse lose a shoe.
I'm really not sure if hot fitting has much to do with reducing the risk of lost shoes. I do know that the practice causes me to pay more attention to detail and has been fundamental in the development of my skills.

Bottom line is that I can do things hot that I either can't or don't want to do cold. Forging is a basic part of the job and represents a practiced skill that every farrier should possess. It's fair to wonder that if a farrier is cold shoeing just to keep things easier, faster or simpler, what other shortcuts is he/she employing?

A competent farrier should be able to do a quality job whether hot or cold and, just as importantly, know when it is appropriate to employ each at need.

Cheers,
Mark
     

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