White line ?

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White line ?

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    12-07-2013, 09:40 PM
White line ?

My horse is transitioning to barefoot after being shod for a year. She is a percheron with extremely thin soles....at least from the xrays two years ago.

The question I have, since I am trying to learn my hoof anatomy on the bottom, is this....So from outwards in, you have the wall, the water line, the white line, then the sole. The wall is darker, then the water line is white, then the next waxy ring is white line, before the sole...right? When looking at my mare's sole, it seems pulled forward, but the white line is not stretched from it (there are no gaps), but the white line ring is very wide. Does that mean it IS stretched?...or that she just happens to have a wide white line? You can see the water line, it is a thin white ring and the wall is much less wider, since a lot of toe has been taken back.

I'm just confused over the white line?????
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    12-07-2013, 09:47 PM
Here is a picture, the day after her two week follow up trim, after her shoes were pulled. The toe was taken back almost to the water line, and then, what I think is the white line, before the sole, is very wide......

    12-08-2013, 01:40 PM
I think if you read this article by Pete Ramey it should answer your question.


Below is a tiny excerpt from the article to give you the idea. I won't attempt to paraphrase anything myself, I'd probably make nonsense of it.

"Again, in a truly healthy hoof with no flaring of the wall this callous is firmly attached to and is immediately adjacent to the white line. If, however, the wall deviates from the bone, there will be uncompacted,**unsupported**"sole" lying**between the***callous and the white line*. (Actually it is not sole at all, but intertubular hoof horn produced from the laminae!) This situation is common in domestic horses and can easily be addressed with proper trimming. Doing this does two things: First, it immediately improves the soundness and the performance of the horse. Second, it dramatically speeds the growing out of flare, placing a self concaved callous right up against the white line where it should be…. All the way around the perimeter of the toe.
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    12-08-2013, 04:44 PM
The layers of the wall in this foot are a little hard to differentiate because it is not freshly trimmed to clean/reveal them . But I am seeing thick layers of dead retained sole (the deeply cracked stuff) and possibly some "seedy toe" which is a little narrow column of whiteline disease right n the center of the toe. Cleaning out the dead sole would offer a better view of the actual condition of the whiteline itself. Or at least rasping on it some to clean it off for a better look. I am going to venture a guess that this toe is flared / stretched. A lot.
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    12-08-2013, 06:58 PM
This foot was touched up the day before this picture. I didn't get it super cleaned out before taking this picture. I am currently letting her shed any of her sole on her own since she has extremely thin sole. She has been out of shoes for two weeks. The seedy toe area, was actually where some gravel was stuck and the sole was growing over it. It was dug out at her trim.

I know her foot is warped and will change with time. I am referring to the lateral side of her foot where the white line seems so wide. I remember seeing the whiter/thinner line between her wall and the white line, which I am assuming is the water line. If I am correct, and the wide area on the lateral side is white line, is it stretched or just wider at the moment because her foot is still transitioning?

Bondre...I have Ramey's first book, need to get his newest one though. However, the illustrations don't even refer to a water line at all, only white line, wall and sole.
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    12-08-2013, 07:25 PM
Same foot, two weeks prior, when shoes were pulled and feet were trimmed....

After shoe was pulled:

After first trim two weeks ago:
    12-08-2013, 07:25 PM
I am referring to the lateral side of her foot where the white line seems so wide.
That is is not the whiteline. It is a strip of very hard ,polished smooth retained sole that is just stuck there. And if you don't REALLY get that toe area opened up you may end up with some serious whiteline disease which can be a real mess.

I am also wondering about the cause of he thin soles. That is very rare for a draft horse.
Could be from allowing the toes to stretch forward for a long time or did this horse have some laminitis in the past?
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    12-08-2013, 07:26 PM
And I hope this is not the same farrier that was doing the shoeing.....that was very bad shoeing.
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    12-08-2013, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Patty Stiller    
And I hope this is not the same farrier that was doing the shoeing.....that was very bad shoeing.
No Patty, it most definitely is NOT the same farrier. I had her shod for a year because she was a rehab to start, with very bad feet and could not walk comfortably. The shoes did seem to help her at least get out and about. But, what I eventually learned, was that even though she could walk over gravel etc, her internal structures and hoof were suffering. In the meantime, that farrier moved away and I was left between a rock and a hard place with my percheron. Other farrier work I've seen around here was not even worth visiting. The one guy that was decent that was going to shoe her, I asked if she could go barefoot and that I'd be willing to take as long as it took to transition etc....he basically chewed me out and said she will never be sound barefoot and will not participate in it.

I found someone that is going to mentor me in trimming the Ramey method (I am not here to argue on whether it is correct or not). I will continue this road trimming my own mares. With such a large horse and finding someone on the same page with me is very hard, so I'm going to do it myself.

Also, in the previous farrier's defense, this pictures was taken 9 weeks after the last trim...usually had them done every 7 weeks with him. But, he gave me four days notice that he was moving away and I had nobody lined up to do a trim.
    12-08-2013, 08:28 PM
I have nothing against the Pete Ramey trim guidelines. They take a lot longer to get the foot back in shaoe than the ELPO guidelines, IMO.
And he makes it a lot more complicated than it has to be. But because they are so conservative they are safe to use for those who are a bit less experienced in trimming . You are lucky to find ANYONE who will work on a draft, too. Many farriers and trimmers will not do them at all .

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