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        12-05-2009, 06:11 PM
      #11
    Started
    Painted Horse - well I have to say that it would be an excellent idea if you made a post more often - apart from the story - wow look at those photos.

    And most folks I know fly to the US for DIsney World or New York - I'll have to show some of them your idea of the US.

    You wonder about those Germans - well there ain't nothing like that where they live - and I've been there.

    Lovely - guess I'd have to pack my own glass of red wine for a picnic lunch in your part of the world.

    Thank you for sharing.

    Barry G
         
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        12-05-2009, 06:17 PM
      #12
    Started
    Dai - well you asked for a horsey story - here is another one.
    A Latin Lothario’s Legacy. (Perchance to dream).

    Sometimes when combing my dapple grey mare’s flaxen tail I notice what foal bearing hips she doeth have. The thought crosses my mind of introducing her to a Lusitano Lothario - a long haired Latin bull fighter. Perhaps her one night of passion might produce the founder of a dynasty. Who knows? Let us hope Her Indoors does not read this post.

    But if I were so lucky to procreate an equine descendent how should I treat her in infancy? So far in my life with horses I have had to form a relationship with someone else’s progeny - warts and all. The youngest horses I have ever owned were both bought as 3 year old colts.


    I have been told by one breeder and trainer that he made a point of never ever approaching any of his foals until they had been weaned. Even when the foals have become adolescents he never allows a horse to touch him otherwise that animal might realize just how weak the human is compared with the horse. An odd policy to decide upon but I must confess the breeder had some nice young stock on his yard.


    Another rather eccentric amateur breeder I know, leaves the foal with the mother out in a field, as a lone pair, until it is time for the foal to be backed - in his case 2 years later. Once backed, the youngster is separated from the mare. He then leaves the youngster out on its own in a secluded field to grow on. In Germany such practice is against the law. But the two geldings which I know he has subjected to this cruel treatment, have proved to be highly intelligent, individualistic horses and each are frightened of nothing. They are indeed self confident. His belief is that the horse who knows humans better than other equines grows to be the more independent animal in this modern human dominated world. But I couldn‘t do it - where is the emotion? I confess, I want my horse to need me.


    At my present yard there is a mare and a foal which is due to be weaned shortly. They have been left out together over the winter in a windy field with relatively little shelter.. The pair live amongst a small carefully selected group of geldings. The foal from time to time does receive some human contact but not much and he comes back into the stable only when he starts to shiver from the rain and a cold wind. The mare, a Thorobred, is a confirmed crib biter and is anyway best kept out of a wooden stable. The foal appears to be happy enough and no doubt will grow to be a big chap, perhaps over 17 hands. Half of him is Trakhener. But for me even a tall horse needs love.


    Now if I had my “druthers” and had a foal to bring on, I would follow none of these systems. The stallion would have been personally selected for temperament as well as conformation and breeding. After the birth, I would have expected that my mare would want me to meet her foal right from birth. Indeed I might feel miffed if she didn’t. The pair would live out during the day in a field of their own, perhaps alongside another mare and foal. They would both come in at night - every night. The foal would be handled as soon as the mare would let me and as soon as I could get close to the foal. The foal would be literally man handled from the start. It would be touched, stroked, groomed and played with every day. I don’t believe in personal space for horse or human. Ok, DiDi the mare would be in overall charge of the growing up process. It would be my hope that she would teach the foal some manners but I would want to make sure that the youngster had no reason to fear man. However I am not expert in such matters
    .
    So Guys & Dolls - you out there who have experience in such matters - what is the best way to bring on a single foal? How would you tackle it?


    I hope for a happy contented well mannered horse with a kind temperament. I believe that the character of most horses is set by their treatment as young stock by humans. There would be no set timetable in bringing the foal on, there would be no hurry I can’t accept that the young horse’s behaviour is decided by the genes alone. The environment in which they are kept as babes must surely play its part. I want my youngster to like and trust humans. So how do I do it - if ever I get around to doing it?


    Is that too much to hope for?


    Barry G

    PS I have already thought of the name for the foal - a “Black Velvet” is a Port & Guinness.
         
        12-05-2009, 06:24 PM
      #13
    Started
    Iridehorses.
    There is nothing quite like this Forum for bringing together horsey folks from all around the world - as long as they can speak and write English.

    The two new posts today make the effort worth while.

    Barry G
         
        12-05-2009, 07:48 PM
      #14
    Super Moderator
    What a lovely story, or shall I say dream? Thank you for sharing it with us Barry.

    I have no doubt, no matter how you decide (if you decide) to raise your DiDi's progeny, it will be one of the most well loved, happy horses there ever was.

    Black Velvet is a great name, no matter what colour the baby ends up to be!

    Please do keep us updated on this momentous decision.
         
        12-05-2009, 08:29 PM
      #15
    Yearling
    I bring my expecting mare in behind my house a few days before the forecasted delivery date. Of the 3 foals, I had born at my place. Two showed up in the middle of the night and were running with their dame when I went out in the morning to check on her. The 3rd foal was born around 11:00 am and we got to witness the birth.

    Here is the mare still on the ground and the colt just becoming aware of its new world.


    We of course came with towels and dried him off. We let him decided when it was time to stand and gave him space.


    Once on his feet we kinda helped him find the right end of his moma.


    A few hours later, my daughter and the neighbor kids were giving the baby all the attention he could stand.


    I leave the pair in my back yard for about 3-4 weeks. This particular mare really doesn't care for people. She tolerates people, but doesn't seek their attention. She is the last horse to be caught when I collect horses. She never comes and take a treat from my hand. Could care less if she gets groomed or any attention. That's not the way I want my babies to grow up. As soon as I'm comfortable that the new foal can run and get away from the other horses I put them back in with the rest of my herd. For 5 minutes the geldings will chase the new herd member. The mother threatens to kick them a few times for getting to close etc. But it all calms down after 5 minutes and the rest of the herd becomes a babysitter for mom. The rest of my horses are VERY people oriented. They meet me at the gate. They follow me any where I go inside their corral. They stand at the fence and visit ( maybe I should say beg) with any of my neighbors who are out for a walk. With in a week of two, the new foal is right in my pocket. She has abondoned the ways of her un-friendly mother and is seeking human attention with the rest of the herd.
         
        12-06-2009, 11:59 AM
      #16
    Started
    Dai, writing comes easy to me and somehow I started the article with “perchance to dream” and not being a literature scholar I had not realised that it was the end of Hamlet (III, I, 65-68)’s to be or not to be” Hamlet is tortured with the fear that there might not be peace even in death. "For in that sleep of death what dreams may come?”

    To die, to sleep;
    to die and then :
    perchance to dream:
    ay, there's the rub

    So as an Old Man. I have to ask myself if I should deliberately bring into this harsh world a foal, soon to be a horse, which I know might well live longer than me. Once I am dead and no longer here to look after it, then the horse might become open to the abuse by other humans who might not take proper care of it? It is a dilemma many of we older folks face when we think of taking on the ownership of a dog or a horse. Will the new owners look after properly the animals we loved and of course spoiled? How would my 14 year old terrier sitting at my feet as I write this note fare? Luckily I have a “Her Indoors” who keeps me on a sensible track. Instantly she discovered my secret wish to have a foal from my present horse, she made it plain that since we did not have our own land and since we do not have any obvious successor in life, this would be a very foolish thing to do. She is, in this instance only, right - of course. We have both read Anna Sewell.

    But the concept of an Irish Draught/Lusitano colt, brought up under a constant and human regime drifts across my mind. My horse has some behavioural issues which I put down to an unsettled early life - she is a very skittish mare yet she is intelligent, sensitive yet in some ways she is quite dominant. She has superb stable manners but riding her out amongst humanity can be fraught. Would a horse brought up from birth under a constant, protective regime be more confident amongst humans in this modern brash world? Hence my describing some of the alternative rearing systems in my earlier article. Why do some horse make a better general purpose riding horse than others? Is it in the genes or is it the upbringing?

    I started another thread just before this one in Horse Training - it has created a lot of interest as to whether one uses the carrot or the stick. Personally I cannot subscribe to some of the posts. I buy carrots by the sack full. Neither my current horse DiDi nor any “ethereal” Black Velvet would ever respond to a stick wielded by a noisy human especially in the absence of carrots.

    What still puzzles me is why I had the subliminal instinct to start the article with “perchance to dream”.

    Her Indoors is beginning to worry that I am going to start dribbling soon.
    Barry G
         
        12-07-2009, 09:05 PM
      #17
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Barry Godden    
    I have been told by one breeder and trainer that he made a point of never ever approaching any of his foals until they had been weaned. Even when the foals have become adolescents he never allows a horse to touch him otherwise that animal might realize just how weak the human is compared with the horse. An odd policy to decide upon but I must confess the breeder had some nice young stock on his yard.
    Actually, my grandfather used to do this…not because he was afraid they'd learn how strong they were, but because he wanted their reactions to be true. And they WERE easy to work with…those babies paid attention to everything little thing you did around them.


    Quote:
    Another rather eccentric amateur breeder I know, leaves the foal with the mother out in a field, as a lone pair, until it is time for the foal to be backed - in his case 2 years later. Once backed, the youngster is separated from the mare. He then leaves the youngster out on its own in a secluded field to grow on. In Germany such practice is against the law. But the two geldings which I know he has subjected to this cruel treatment, have proved to be highly intelligent, individualistic horses and each are frightened of nothing. They are indeed self confident. His belief is that the horse who knows humans better than other equines grows to be the more independent animal in this modern human dominated world. But I couldn‘t do it - where is the emotion? I confess, I want my horse to need me.
    I don't understand this at all…every mare I've ever had that was not bred back HAD to have the foal removed for weaning. Otherwise they would continue to nurse well past normal weaning and sometimes into a year or more if they were put back together before the mare dried up. Just my experience tho…

    I've done weaning several ways, and the best way I've found is to separate the weaners from their mamas and put them with a patient older mare. I just leave them with her for a couple of weeks to a month before I start bringing them in a couple at a time for halter breaking.
         
        12-12-2009, 12:16 PM
      #18
    Green Broke
    Barry, another wonderful thought provoking thread. To answer why so many view but don't post, I will/can only answer for myself.

    I am an observer by nature. I do visit many subjects/threads on the forum, and only occasionally will respond. Usually someone else has responded, in my opinion, better and more eloquently than I could.

    Like you and others, I do not get bogged down with the spelling ect...but look more to the spirit/message of the post. Sometimes when one is passionate and excited to respond, the fingers are flying faster than the brain can keep up with proper spelling and punctuation. It does sadden me when someone focuses way to much on that and not the "gist" of the response.

    I do visit the same threads many times to check in on the discussion. I enjoy the ups/downs and turnarounds and many times am laughing or shaking my head (the husband is probably looking into "placement" options at this point) at some of the posts.

    I particularly enjoy the threads that are not as instructional as those that challenge me to think "outside the box". Your "heels up/down" was a very good example of that. Your thread touching on the emotions was another that I have always pondered on.

    Like many here, I do not train for a living, but only for my needs. I am fortunate to share my life with two very sane and calm horses. I am still a believer that it is a privilege and honor to have these wonderful animals in my life. I strive to do what is best for all three of us, and always feel rewarded by displays of their trust and affection.

    I try to adhere to principles that whatever I do:
    1. I do not get hurt
    2. The horse doesn't get hurt
    3. The horse is calmer at the end then when we started

    I haven't always accomplished this, but one must have goals/standards.

    So, while I may not post often, I am always out there reading and learning.

    Barry, keep us thinking "outside the box". It's very good exercise for my dwindling brain cells!
         
        12-14-2009, 08:14 PM
      #19
    Super Moderator
    Barry I am so happy that writing comes so easy to you because then we all benefit from it!

    Your 'Her Indoors' is a very wise woman. I tend so much to think with my heart and am not sensible in any sense of the word. So I was all ready to throw Didi a virtual baby shower to help her welcome her lovely baby! But Her Indoors is so right to think about the future. I too have read Anna Sewell and now fear a tick for the future of my pets both indoors and outdoors. So something else to think about!

    However, reality should never stop one from dreaming on what could be. I daydream from time to time on many things that I know will never be a reality...but for the brief time I let my mind wander...it brings a smile to my face. And what harm is there in that?

    It would be interesting to see, if it is truly in the genes or in the upbringing or what combination of both which determines a horses end disposition. I know nothing about my mares background...but she is also sensitive and skittish...but clearly wants nothing more to feel safe and be close to who she deems her leader. It's me when I'm around but my gelding when I'm not. She wants to please so much...but yet is so afraid.

    Given your ideas about how to raise a young 'un...it would be very interesting to see how you'd fare...but not very practical I don't imagine. But still...perchance to dream...

         
        12-14-2009, 11:51 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    I do all my forum searching from the New Posts section so I don't narrow what I am exposed to. I very rarely go into personal threads- ie poems, stories, or pictures. I choose to click on threads I want to know more about or I have an opinion/advice to give. I don't like to waste my time. If the topic is not thought provoking I will move on without hesitation. I don't post on a thread if there are already multiple posts that express a similar viewpoint to my own. As time goes by I find myself less eager to post. I have had days where I sift through 5 pages of threads and find nothing worthy of even clicking on. However, there is one thing I will never pass up on reading: a closed thread. I like to read them from beginning to end, see what went wrong and why it happened. I enjoy analyzing the situation.
         

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