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Fair compensation?

This is a discussion on Fair compensation? within the Horse Boarding forums, part of the Barns, Boarding, and Farms category

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        05-12-2012, 12:15 AM
      #11
    Started
    I would have to feed every weekday night for a month just to earn one lesson. You've already gotten your time's worth by most barn's standards with the lessons you've already had.

    She offered lessons for feeding. You don't want lessons (on other horses) and are still feeding. How is that her problem? If you want to quit the deal, tell her politely, but feeling entitled to cash value of anything when you're the one choosing not to take lessons you've earned is on you, not her.
         
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        05-12-2012, 01:23 AM
      #12
    Showing
    Then engage in a mature conversation with her.

    "Since my horse is on stall rest, would I be able to work off some of her board until she can be ridden again?"

    You know?
         
        05-12-2012, 02:04 PM
      #13
    Weanling
    I still don't get how you guys think what your trainers expect in work for your lessons means that I am not owed anything. That's like me saying that because I get unlimited lessons for my 2 days of feeding a week, then you are owed more lessons at your barn. Honestly I have never heard of working that much for that little. Maybe that's what you do wherever you are, but again...it really doesn't contribute to what I should do in my situation, because apparently things are valued differently in my barn.

    And again, I am not looking for cash value (the worth of the unlimited lessons) here. I just want at least something in return for the work.

    If my trainer felt like I should continue on another horse, or else forfeit any financial benefit of my work, then she should have said something to me. "Oh, you know, if you continue feeding you should be taking your lessons on this horse or that horse, I won't be responsible for lessons you chose not to take, blah blah blah". Something like that - but she hasn't.

    It would be stupid to assume that because I was out at the barn feeding without taking lessons, I was just doing it for nothing and understood I was doing it for nothing. Because I never said anything like that.
         
        05-12-2012, 03:12 PM
      #14
    Weanling
    Skyseternalangel had the absolute best advise here.

    Until you have that conversation, you former verbal contract is in affect and it's your fault you didnt use the compensation offered. You cannot retroactively change the agreement and demand payment UNLESS that was prenegotiated in the original agreement.

    I get a paycheck every week. That was what was outlined in my employment contract. I cannot go in to work on Monday and demand to be paid in whatever goods & services my employer makes; and if I don't cash my paycheck (ie. Used my agreed upon form of compensation) it's not my employers fault if I don't have cash in my wallet.

    You asked for advice, and you got a resounding answer, but you don't like that answer. It's not that we don't understand your situation, it's that we don't agree with the conclusion you prefer.
    .
    You can have the conversation and either
    A) Ask for back compensation & potentially burn a bridge/lose the gig, and frankly a sweet one at that.
    B) Ask to renegotiate the deal, and take the couple weeks where you didn't use the offered compensation, as a life lesson.

    What you do with this advice is up to you.
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        05-12-2012, 03:26 PM
      #15
    Trained
    And just to let you know how a BO/Trainer feels about this subject, if you were at my barn and I read this post, not only would you not be feeding anymore for any thing at all, you'd get a sweet little 30 day notice to move out of my barn. This kind of ungrateful, entitled attitude is why most BO/Trainers will not do work exchanges.
         
        05-12-2012, 03:34 PM
      #16
    Green Broke
    I feed generally 2-3 times a week and instead of free lessons or cash we get points towards going places so I wouldnt be complaining its not her fault your horse is out. I would take the opportunity to widden your riding skills nd work with another horse.
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        05-12-2012, 04:17 PM
      #17
    Weanling
    As a show barn owner I *100% agree with Dreamcatcher Arabians*. I have a waiting list of girls willing to jump in to this kind of situation.

    It's supply and demand. I have a supply of people willing to do the work for the compensation I offered. There for I can expect and demand my own terms.

    All of my girls know my terms as I have them and when applicable their parents, sign a contract saying my Working Student positions are "At Will" and have no cash value. That it is strictly an education for labor exchange. "At will" means you can leave any time and I can fire you for any reason not specified by the government, and "not wanting to put up with BS" is a 100% valid reason.

    As an empathetic mature adult I can understand your frustration, but "thems the terms you agreed to", and I stand by what I stated above.
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        05-12-2012, 04:32 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    So let me make sure that I’m understanding you correctly. 1. You agree you’ve been getting a great deal by getting unlimited lessons (you collect on 3/wk lessons) for feeding 2 x’s a week. 2. Your horse is currently not sound to ride 3. You’ve fed a total of 12 x’s (2/wk for 6 wks = 12 feedings) 4. You feel your horse is a “cash cow” for her because you provide her grain. 5. It takes you approx. 2-4 hours to feed, and you’ve had to bring horses in from the rain. 6. You feel that “if it {lessons} is worth more than she has asked” it’s not your issue, you’ve held up on your end of the agreement. 7. You agree that a) you can take lessons on a different horse, but chose not to because you want to focus on your horse b) you’ve ridden another, but it doesn’t meet your standards (“he wasn’t that good a mover”), and neither do others that are available (most are small/med ponies). 8. You are adamant that you believe you have held up your end of the “deal”, but she has not as of the last 6 weeks held up hers. 9. You want some form of compensation. AND finally 10. You’re frustrated at others responses not giving you a definite answer of reasonable compensation.

    First, by stating that you’ve been getting a “great deal”, you are admitting that your trainer is taking on the bulk of the agreement, not you. Regardless of how the agreement was hashed out.

    Your horse is FAR from a “cash cow”. A bag of feed is what, $30 at most? Are you taking into consideration the cost of any hay your horse eats if purchased off-site or costs associating with baling/racking hay if on-site, fencing maintenance, facility maintenance, shavings, electricity, property insurance, business insurance, property taxes, utility bills, payment to others to clean stalls/do other chores? Providing a bag of grain is about 1% of total costs incurred by a facility owner, so she is in no way making $$ by you buying a bag of feed.

    I still can’t figure out how it takes you 2-4 hours to feed a 20 stall barn, 2 hrs maybe. At a 45 stall facility feeding grain/mixing supplements = 45 min. Hay = 15 min. Bring in horses = 30min to an hour on a REALLY bad day. Sweeping up isle, and misc another 30 min. TOTAL = 2.5 hours on a TERRIBLE day, and that’s double the horses. At a 16 stall facility… feeding grain in the stalls, setting hay out in fields, letting horses out, cleaning all stalls, scrubbing & filling H2O buckets, setting hay & feed for nighttime, sweeping isles, and picking any piles in the indoor was at most 5 hours BY MYSELF. In both cases horses needed to be led in, so I too had to catch them. So again, not seeing how it’s taking you 2-4 hours.

    Your agreement was lessons for feeding. I haven’t seen anywhere where she said you CAN’T take lessons, you just CHOSE not to. Your reasons remind me of my kids when it’s their way or no way. So it’s not that she’s not holding up her end of the bargain, it’s you’re not liking the terms when it doesn’t go your way. You’re wanting compensation because you’re not getting what you want, rather than because the agreement isn’t being honored.

    You can definitely try talking to her, it’s worth a shot. But from all of your posts, and I’ve read them very carefully to make sure that I’m not missing something, you are not presenting yourself in a good light. I’m hoping this was not intended to sound this way, but it sounds like someone who expects everything is owed them for little to no effort on their part. And doesn't want to do any of the "dirty" work of owning a horse, just the "fun" stuff like riding.

    If you were in my barn, and came to me asking for compensation for feeding twice a week just because YOUR horse wasn’t rideable and you don’t want to ride my lesson horses, you would get one of 2 answers. Either, “don’t feed anymore, & pay for your lessons from now on” or “ride one of the other horses available”. And if either of those aren’t what you want to hear, “…there’s the door”. But trust me, I wouldn't be so nice about it.

    This isn’t about her not holding up her end of the deal, it’s about you not getting your way.

         
        05-12-2012, 06:48 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    I would be taking advantage of the opportunity you have here (and believe me it is an opportunity) and ride some of her horses. You will learn training techniques and methods you can apply to either your horse at some point or others down the line, not to mention, the more lessons you have, the better and more skilled you will become at riding. I don't see why it should matter if the schoolhorse is a great mover or not; it's not your horse and is therefore only temporary, as well as gaining experience and miles in the saddle for YOU. The better at riding you become and the more stable of a seat you have will prove invaluble in training your own horse and will benefit you both.
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        05-12-2012, 07:48 PM
      #20
    Weanling
    I'm glad I don't board with any of you. Good lord.

    I spoke with my trainer today. She was most happy to offer me right away $125 off my board while Amber is off, and a few free lessons on another horse for the month or so I've been feeding without lessons.

    I'm completely happy with that. Maybe people just do things differently in other places - maybe people value work more at my barn.

    I don't get how any of you can take this as an "ungrateful" post. I am very grateful for all my barn owner has done for me. I haven't said anything against her here. Again - it's not like I think she is massively indebted to me. I guarantee anybody else that rides at my barn would have done the same as I did if they had fed and not had lessons for a month. Quite honestly those of you who would say "your loss" to someone who had done work for you but didn't take their lessons with a valid cause wouldn't need to give me a 30 day notice - I would leave.

    I also understand that where you guys are coming from is just how you do things where you are, but clearly we just do things differently at my barn. My barn owner's response today was proof of that. She had no problem understanding where I was coming from.
    Skyseternalangel likes this.
         

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