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How would you approach this?

7K views 55 replies 22 participants last post by  bmahosky13 
#1 · (Edited)
I recently moved to my old/new barn boarding facility. It has an indoor arena with good footing. The owner is pretty good, has good hay, and is fair to his boarders.

When I got there, I noticed that one horse was still in the barn during turnout time. I asked the girl who worked there if the horse was sore/lame and that's why he had to stay in. She said no, that the young girl that owns him does not want him turned out. Ok. It's beautiful outside and winter is approaching.
This horse is big, a QH/Perch cross I believe. He's overweight, he is getting 7 flakes of hay a day and he is just standing in the barn all day. He is only walked in the arena occasionally. Just for the sake of adding this, he was also wearing a quilted stable blanket in the barn.....it's summer here!

The horses are also not turned out together, so no worries of them kicking each other etc.

I'm feeling kind of bad for this horse. Wouldn't you? How would you encourage this young lady to let her horse out to stretch his legs and get some fresh air?

I was told that the girl also takes her halter and lead rope home so no one can turn him out.....I have been away from this barn for a while and don't know of any occurrences that would prevent this girl from giving her pal a bit of freedom.

I was thinking of asking her if she would want to ride out with me one day soon before the snow flys......I want to be encouraging.....

Also, I don't want to fly to conclusions here, she may have a legitimate reason for keeping him in. The girls working at the barn said he's not sore or lame.
 
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#2 ·
It's good that you worry about the horse but, unfortunately, it's really not anybody's business what she does with her own horse providing that he's still being well cared for. There might be some underlying reason for the horse being kept inside and not turned out such as IR or Cushings (which are not uncommon in draft crosses) where he can't have green grass. There may be some other really good reason that he's kept in, you just never know.

I encourage you to ask her if she wants to ride with you, if for no other reason than to make a new horse friend at the barn where you'll have your horse. One can never have too many good horsey friends. If you hit it off and find her company agreeable, you might just ask her one of these days without making it sound accusatory.
 
#7 ·
Thanks, that's the kind of answer that is productive. And yes it's none of my business and I wasn't going to make it my business. I was just wondering if anyone knows of why someone would keep a horse in 24/7.
 
#4 ·
You don't know for sure why he isn't allowed outside. He could very well be on stall rest at a Vet's instructions and his owner just said "he needs to stay inside" to the employees and left it at that.

Or her horse may run through fences making it un-safe for him to be outside. I have a horse that picks fights OVER the fence. If my BO wasn't willing to work with me and move all the other horses to different turnouts so he shares a fenceline with nobody, he'd still be on stall rest!

It's HER horse and the care of HER horse is between her and the BO.
 
#6 ·
You're right, it is between her and the BO. I don't want to get involved, I was just asking if anyone might know why someone might do this......
 
#5 ·
Ok, um I know it's none of my business thank you very much, I was hoping someone might know of reasons why, that's why I said I was not certain of why he stays in and that she might have a legitimate reason for it. I was only going by what I was told. The horse looks really well cared for, overweight but healthy enough from a visual. Really I was just curious as to why this seemingly healthy horse may be kept in, over fed and under exercised. I was trying to think of ways to befriend this person, not judge her. And yes, in a way it might seem that I'm judging, but I'm not throwing around insults about this person.
Yes, I will ask her if she wants to ride out. I'm not going to bother her, nor am I going to complain to the BO, he's an old friend and he sees what's going on.

I have forgotten who posted it, but yes Cushings or some other condition may be the concern. Thanks for the insightfulness.
 
#8 ·
I'm feeling kind of bad for this horse. Wouldn't you? How would you encourage this young lady to let her horse out to stretch his legs and get some fresh air?

**

Also, I don't want to fly to conclusions here, she may have a legitimate reason for keeping him in. The girls working at the barn said he's not sore or lame.
This is what you asked.. To which people replied. You didn't ask if there were any "unseen" circumstances that would prevent a horse from being t/o.

I would be upset if a boarder asked me why I chose to do certain things with my horse... If I've made arrangements with my BO, that's between me and them.

To answer your current question about whether there are extenuating circumstances that a horse would be kept in for... Yes. PurpsTank's horse is being kept in a good portion right now due to allergic reactions to bug bites. A horse may be recovering from a condition or treatment, or may be kept in to heal from an injury per the vet; not all injuries are perceptible at the walk, or may require a lengthy stall rest period even past when the horse would no longer appear lame - such as with suspensory issues.
There are a zillion "legitimate" reasons as to why a horse may be kept in.
The owner may simply prefer to not turn a horse out. Though I don't agree with it, it would be none of my business to butt in.

It's nice of you to offer to ride with the owner, but I would suggest avoiding the turn out topic.
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#9 ·
Oh yeah, I'm not going to get in her business, it was just a passing casual remark as 'oh, why does this guy stay in, is he hurt' and quite frankly it is my business to a certain degree as I work at the barn 4 mornings a week....if you had a horse that needed to stay in, wouldn't you inform the BO and the staff? In this case the BO has no idea why the girl needs this horse in. Didn't really think I needed to get into this much detail.

And there could be legitimate reasons, and there probably is. If I find out, I will let you know.

Don't you think it's odd to keep a horse penned up in his stall 24/7 at a boarding facility and not inform the staff as to why? If it is a medical condition, don't you think it's prudent to tell the people who take care of your horse.

That's the whole scoop. Should have just written it all down to begin with.
 
#11 ·
The fact that he is only exercised at a light walk supports the idea that he might be coming off of an injury or in rehab, and the blanket supports that he might have allergies to bugs, either way it's really up to her whether or not she wants to tell you WHY she does certain things with him, otherwise all she NEEDS to tell you is what to do, if you work there (and work there in the sense that you're actually dealing with horses, not necessarily just clean up).
 
#14 · (Edited)
Are you for real? Is that how you treat people who take care of your horses (if they were to ever be in a boarding situation) oh yes I'm humble enough to say that occasionally I pick up horse poop and yes I also get the privilege of riding the horses too (I don't see that as my right, it's a privilege to be trusted with someone else's animal) I have never had a boarder tell me what to do, I've had them ask very politely with pleases and thank-yous, like can you clip my horse, can you exercise my horse, all additional charges, and I am free to decline, as I am not bound to do these things by the BO.

I also do believe, for the welfare of your animal you SHOULD inform the staff of any ailments or conditions, bad habits that your horse might have so that the staff can be aware and on the look out for problems that might arise.
Having a good boarder/BO relationship is about communication, not secrecy, gossip, rumors and backstabbing.......and treating someone's staff like crap will only get you sent packing. Atleast at my barn that happens, we won't tolerate brats.
 
#12 ·
I think the OP asked a legitmate question seeking information, and got some good information in return.

There is nothing inappropriate about her concern, her curiousity and no indication that she plans to do anything inappropriate.

There is absolutely no personal or geographical information in her post.

Now, in most boarding barn situations I've been in, at least one boarder would have already been gossiping about how cruel and unreasonable the owner is, and a bunch of juniors would have started a bunch of inaccurate rumors about what disease was ailing the horse....

However, the OP is not doing that. She came her looking for reasonable, alternate scenarios and got them. 'Nuff said.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Thanks Maura, that was what I was aiming for too. It's a concerning situation.
He's the biggest horse in the facility, and he stands in his stall 23hrs a day!

Referring to another poster, ummm the boarders don't tell me what to do (and if you think that being a boarder in a barn is a position of superiority over the staff, then you won't be much liked, nor will you be welcome for very long at any barn you choose to be a part of) the BO tells me what to do (although the BO knows me pretty well, this isn't a new barn for me, I've just been away. This has been a 10yr span of being friends and co-workers with the BO). The boarders don't need to treat me badly, I give them nothing to ***** about, nor do I give them reason to treat me as a subordinate, I am one of them too.

I have done nothing inappropriate, I just have never seen a situation quite like this before. Hey if you don't ask about things, how are you ever to learn??
Have you not seen anything odd or strange and had to know why or how something came to be the way it is?

Essentially what I saw was what I got. Horse is as sound as they come, vet(s) and farriers have confirmed it for owner and BO. But apparently it's allergic to being a real horse, and is required to live its life like a lab animal. Sad situation for the horse indeed. I have lost much respect for the owner and will not be seeking a friendship or otherwise.

No names, no address, nothing, nada, zip......
 
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#15 · (Edited)
I'm honestly not sure how what I said was offensive. IF he was coming off of an injury or IF he had allergies to certain things and you worked at the barn it's a fairly easy connection to the fact that she needs to tell you what to do with her horse- so you know what special treatment it needs. Yes it would probably be beneficial to tell you why, but she doesn't have to if she doesn't feel like she needs to. I didn't mean to imply that boarders walk around demanding you do things for them or 'telling you what to do' in the sense of telling you how to do your job, just in that they NEED to tell you what special things their horses need done... so you know.

And I never said that's what I would do. ;D I said if she doesn't feel the need to tell you, there's really nothing you can do about it.
 
#17 ·
I think it was just a miscommunication. Horse owners are fussy people, we can spout it until we're blue in the face that lines of communication SHOULD be kept open, and staff SHOULD know everything that is going on with the horses they're taking care of but there will always be the horse owners who don't want to tell you any more than you 'need' to know to do what they think needs to be done.
 
#18 ·
Yes, this ones a hard one.....it's not for me to solve - thats the owners job to figure out.......it's for me to tolerate...tolerating stupidity is not my strong point..:lol:
 
#19 ·
I worked at a cutting/ training barn... Unless the horse was just in for starting, or a tune up (and wasnt a stud) they were USUALLY not turned out outside. We had the exception of the stud row with stalls with stud appropriate fencing (this is also a breeding farm mind you), but unless a trainee was able to nab an open spot then no outside turn out. IF a horse was in for show tuning/ showing purposes, these horses where kept in to prevent fading, hair pulling ,knicks and the like-often even blanketed because they HAD to look good for the cutting pen. On off days the horses that were not turned out outside were able to get some indoor arena freedom at some point throughout the day. I usually worked mornings, but on many occasions did the evening feedings for the b/o..thats the only reason I knew many horses where being turned out after i had left... because is definetly was not only done during the hours i was working.

If the barn you board at practices two different shifts (with different people) than its likely this employee doesnt know the horses WHOLE routine/story. Maybe the horse is light sensitive and gets turn out at night? there are alot of reasons why a horse wont get turn out... Also while working at this barn, if a client was asking me about a horse he had no business asking about (ie- NOT HIS HORSE), I would not give info out, because it wasnt my job, or business to do so.


I think if your that curious you should definetly just talk to the horses owner and see if she would like to ride out with you...
 
#20 ·
Yes Peppersgirl, there is only one 'shift' of workers, we all know each other relatively well. There is no miscommunication between the staff about this, it's just a super strange, weird and odd situation. It's not just turn out, it's all kind of strange behaviours and requests that are of no benefit to the animal...let me reiterate that this horse is healthy, there are no mystery illnesses or conditions......put it this way, would anyone with a little bit of sense stall their horse practically 24/7 and over feed the horse whom is already overweight to the point that the horse can't actually eat all the food and it is wasted and thrown out everyday?......it's mind boggling, but because I am trying to be sensitive to confidentiality etc etc I cannot go into too much detail......really it's mind boggling.
:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:
 
#27 ·
put it this way, would anyone with a little bit of sense stall their horse practically 24/7 and over feed the horse whom is already overweight to the point that the horse can't actually eat all the food and it is wasted and thrown out everyday?......it's mind boggling,
Most people on this board advocate free choice hay. Free choice means that there is ample, with some left over so you know the horse is grazing all day. To many people here that is good practice. As the horse is stalled, there is bound to be waste due to manure.


As far as stalling all day, most of the top show horses in the world are stalled all day. Very few see turnout.
 
#21 ·
I see...While I also don't agree that how this horse is being handled is "the right way"...he isn't being starved or abused...and they do take him out for walks.

I notice you haven't mentioned any weird stall vises (pacing, weaving, chewing stuff up ect) which may mean the horse may be very well content with his situation. not all horses are hot heads that need a ton of exersize to stay sane..


he may just be the basset hound equine equivilant..
 
#23 ·
I certainly see where you're coming from, and as I say there are many many many things going on that I cannot divulge. There are vices.........no he's not being starved, he's being fed up like a thanksgiving turkey, a horse that's a little on the lighter side is better than a horse that's grossly overweight....blatant abuse is obviously not the issue here......it's quality of life......its pretty inexpensive to turn your Bassett hound horse out into a safe yard now and then....

You know, it's a mess.........
 
#25 ·
You're right, and I've run many possibilities through my head before condemning this person to the trash can......however my impression so far is that she wants what she wants and she will get it through intimidation, whining and generally just screwing everyone over (it's a long story!)

Staff have moved on because they refuse to deal with her......she will be politely told to leave soon I am sure.....
 
#26 ·
I think nearly anyone and everyone who has boarded somewhere has seen horses whose care they would find lacking, in one way or another. Since where I ride, the horses live outside 24/7 no matter the weather, ANY kind of all day stalling feels wierd to me. But, to someone else, seeing our horses out in the rain and snow, they must think we have rocks for brains to leave them out there.
My point being, it's not uncommon for us horse people to judge each other's care standards. You might find yourself on the being judged end of that equation at some time. It can happen.

I do agree that it seems like a sad situation for the horse, and unfortunately, there is not much you can do since horses are "owned" by humans and subject to their whims. For your own protection, just tread very lightly becuase these kind of things invariably come back to bite you in the rear. Ask me how I know. (meaning I have made this mistake myself)
 
#31 ·
Yes Tiny, for sure I've been treading lightly, in fact at the barn I just carry on as usual, and watch and listen....I can see what's going on. Yes I've been on the tail end of being judged (I hosed the sweat and dirt of my horses girth and legs after I rode him everyday and everyone thought I was nuts.....I just didn't want her to get a girth rash????). But people still looked at me cross-eyed, but I was working in the best interest of the animal...or so I thought.
Yes it is a sad situation for the horse, there is nothing I can do about it.
Karma is a *****, and she does not forget.....I'm not going to stir the pot, I'm positive the rest of the staff have stirred it enough.
I know it's an unhealthy situation for a somewhat healthy horse (apart from being overweight) and it will show in his legs, hooves, heart, muscles (a muscle not being used, is a muscle not alive) ....it's already showing in his attitude.
 
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#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hmmm the problem with venting a little or asking questions of a somewhat delicate nature online is that sometimes people misread your posts or misinterpret your posts and take them out of context.

People keep saying things like 'most of the worlds top show horses are stalled 24/7 and never see turn out'......I'm not talking about a top show horse.....this is a good example of poor reading comprehension.

Oh, yes, free choice hay....sure, good......how about free choice hay, sweet feed, mash, barley and chaff on top, twice a day....

Originally I opened this thread in good spirit......

Thanks to you who 'got' my drift.....

Let's just call this one a day......

Just for the record, I'm not stirring the pot at the barn, I don't do that (I was so curious as to what you guys thought I came on here to see - better than gossiping at the barn and creating trouble) as long as that particular boarder doesn't abuse me like she has the others she will be just fine, with her stall bound, overweight, under exercised, beautiful and totally under appreciated horse.
 
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#29 ·
People keep saying things like 'most of the worlds top show horses are stalled 24/7 and never see turn out'......I'm not talking about a top show horse.....this is a good example of poor reading comprehension.
Actually I both read and comprehended. Maybe it was you who did not... the point was that many horses live in a stall 24/7, in fact the most expensive horses in the world tend to. Obviously this horse is not one of them - however he is in good company.

Oh, yes, free choice hay....sure, good......how about free choice hay, sweet feed, mash, barley and chaff on top, twice a day....
And this would be new information. If I knew the unknown, I'd probably have a decent career as a clairvoyant.
 
#32 ·
::backing away slowly::
Muppet, I see your concerns as legitimate. But, sweetie just take a deep breath and put yourself in that owners situation. I'm considering buying a horse that cannot be ridden or let out with other horses and I might be making the same requests for her...I suggest you do befriend her, invite her for a ride...perhaps gently requesting why her special request (using a friendly, curious tone of voice)...other than that, it's the only advice I have. Goodluck!
 
#33 ·
Haha no need to back away. Well in your situation it's a legitimate reason for no riding or turn out. That's fine. In this case it's not. The horse is taken to a show about once every 4 months as far as I know.....I could and can understand a world class performance horse who is exercised vigorously and maintains a level of fitness well beyond the normal everyday horse.....but this is NOT a performance animal by any stretch of the imagination....the only thing it performs is breath in - breath out - poop and the occasional 15 minute walk and perhaps a little trot around the arena........this is a beautiful animal.....maybe at night he opens his stall door and races around n the arena?:).

I'll be decent to the owner, hey we all have our own battles to fight and only we can fight them right? Also, everyone has something to offer.....
 
#36 ·
OP.. I dont see anything wrong with saying " isnt that a bit odd?" since everyone who boards someplace undoubtedly has experienced people with very different views on what constitutes 'what is the "right" thing to do. My horses are on pasture board, so I would find a horse inside 24/7 to be out of the norm as well. And my curiosity would be piqued. You certainly were not suggesting maybe you should take him out for a good workout when his owner was not looking =) I would be curious too... and what is wrong with a little random chat here between friends! ( and now you have ME wondering too!)
 
#37 ·
Muppet-I have a couple of thoughts. !.) you are getting started in reining. Get used to the "no turn out" bit. Most top show barns DO NOT turn out.

2.) I would suggest that the BO educate the owner on Laminitis/founder in drafts and draft crosses. When I bought mine almost 20 yrs ago, I was told NEVER, EVER give grain. Since which time the battle has been on to keep the weight off. Literally these horses do better living on very, very little. Feel free to look at the thread I started today since I have a feeling my guy, who is now on a free lease has been overfed by someone very well meaning. Perhaps the owner does not know how overfeeding her horse can lead to permanent damage and pain? My 1/2 clyde (who weight tapes right now, so I am told, at about 1800#) lives on one CUP of pellets twice a day and one FLAKE of hay twice a day......He was being overfed and now is very sore. Please ask the BO, as it is not your business, so to speak, to educate the owner.
 
#38 ·
Yes Frank, you have some valid points....this isn't a reining horse, it's well just kind of a horse, although I did decipher that it's not sore, because it was pulled out of its stall (for the first time in I don't know how long) and raced around the arena while it was whacked with a crop for being a little too energetic (surprise surprise) and then it was put away....probably for another two weeks probably......I guess the owner is protecting her horse from the harms of fresh air, sunlight and exercise.....

I have also wondered about the effects this would have on his legs and feet...
 
#39 ·
When you own a horses or horses you soon discover that they give you enough stress without taking on other peoples problems!!!
I have always found that the best way to influence people is through friendship. I do agree that the situation seems rather odd but as others have said - it isn't your business.
Be pleasant to this person and encourage casual conversation thats not related to how she manages the horse - she may in time feel willing to open up to you - if not at least the atmosphere will be a pleasant one
 
#40 ·
Actually it's funny you wrote this, I had a nice visit with the owner this passed weekend, mentioned nothing of her horse management, we talked about him in general terms but not in any great detail.....she seemed nice enough.....but she did seem to be focused on 'the little things' ie: a few nose whiskers or a small scrape' she seemed to agonize over it......I just said 'it's alright, they all get the occasional bump or scrape'....'a few nose hairs is ok, I can trim them off if you don't like the look of them' etc etc....just tried to open the window one might say....to be honest, I've seen worse overall.......this is just odd......
 
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