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Who is responsible? Hypothetical

This is a discussion on Who is responsible? Hypothetical within the Horse Boarding forums, part of the Barns, Boarding, and Farms category

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        11-16-2011, 08:28 PM
      #21
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind    
    I agree with the people that say it is not something you can expect to collect from the BO. The boarders know the tin is there, they have accepted the tin is there. It is not like the tin is a hidden danger.

    True, but honestly know one even really (boarders anyway) noticed the tin until the accident. I guess it blended in with the water troughs. The troughs are old bathtubs.
         
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        11-17-2011, 08:36 AM
      #22
    Banned
    My answer is: It depends on your boarding contract. ALL of the ones we've encountered while barn shopping last year stated that the owner of the property WAS NOT liable for any injury or illness to the horse. PERIOD

    Personally, this clause always caused me some discomfort as it implies that a barn owner could feed your fat horse sweet feed and if it founders, not be held responsible. OR that a barn owner could have barbed wire, or insufficient fencing or have tin magically appear in a pasture and if the horse escapes or gets hurt due to what is obviously negligence on the BO's part....they can't be held responsible.

    Just never like the clause and how it absolves the BO should negligence or improper care result in death or injury of the horsee .....

    An example of my dislike of the clause: a boarding facility in our area has serious issues. Firstly, they've had 6 horses die of colic in 2 years. I know colic happens, but that number vs. time ratio seems worrisome. Perhaps someone needs to reevaluate their feeding regimen or check those pastures for toxic trees or plants.

    Secondly, three times in the last few years (3) the horses have escaped the fencing and were found running out on a major highway. ....posing a danger to themselves and passing motorists. The last episode occured last year. A boarder who had just bought his horse, and from the same man we bought our OTTB from, had his horse get hit by a car and killed.


    Thirdly, horses are grouped together in volatile cicrumstances. In other words, horses are put out with other horses despite knowing that these groupings have serious aggression issues. One instance of said unwise turnout groupings resulted in a horse being viciously attacked by the alpha and a sidekick of his and the horse was run through a fence. The horse died.


    Now, IMO, safe and reliable fencing is A MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY of the BO...but in this case, the fencing continues to be inadequate enough to allow the horses to escape and pose a danger to themselves and motorists travelling a major state highway which passes near their property. Horses are turned out with others despite the BO knowing there were issues...I know this because we used to go trail riding with her as she runs a trail riding business and she would always say to keep this horse from that one or they would fight....or kick, etc. AND having so many colic issues would have me doing some serious property checks for chemicals, toxic plants or trees, or reevaluating my feeding regimen.
         
        11-17-2011, 09:07 AM
      #23
    Showing
    My first response was "yes, BO is responsible", but after reading through the responses and re-reading the OP I realized that the pile was outside the fence. Then I'd say no, it's one of those rare freakin accident that can always happen.
    Ray MacDonald likes this.
         
        11-17-2011, 09:39 AM
      #24
    Banned
    True, but the real question is how close to the fence! Because if you store dangerous things OUTSIDE the fence but still within reach, isn't that still negligence?

    Example: I would not store bags of fertilizer against the outside of the pasture fence. Because while OUTSIDE the fence, it is still within reach.
         
        11-17-2011, 09:52 AM
      #25
    mls
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beauseant    
    True, but the real question is how close to the fence! Because if you store dangerous things OUTSIDE the fence but still within reach, isn't that still negligence?
    I truly think there is more to the story than is being told. Tin OUTSIDE of the fence sliced up a leg that badly? Just does not compute!
         
        11-17-2011, 10:12 AM
      #26
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mls    
    I truly think there is more to the story than is being told. Tin OUTSIDE of the fence sliced up a leg that badly? Just does not compute!
    I agree. That's why I thought at first it's in field somewhere. I'd like to see some pics of the setup (not to prove anyone is right/wrong, but to be aware for my own horses). In any case I hope horse will heal fast!
         
        11-17-2011, 10:17 AM
      #27
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beauseant    
    My answer is: It depends on your boarding contract. ALL of the ones we've encountered while barn shopping last year stated that the owner of the property WAS NOT liable for any injury or illness to the horse. PERIOD

    Personally, this clause always caused me some discomfort as it implies that a barn owner could feed your fat horse sweet feed and if it founders, not be held responsible. OR that a barn owner could have barbed wire, or insufficient fencing or have tin magically appear in a pasture and if the horse escapes or gets hurt due to what is obviously negligence on the BO's part....they can't be held responsible.

    Just never like the clause and how it absolves the BO should negligence or improper care result in death or injury of the horsee .....

    An example of my dislike of the clause: a boarding facility in our area has serious issues. Firstly, they've had 6 horses die of colic in 2 years. I know colic happens, but that number vs. time ratio seems worrisome. Perhaps someone needs to reevaluate their feeding regimen or check those pastures for toxic trees or plants.

    Secondly, three times in the last few years (3) the horses have escaped the fencing and were found running out on a major highway. ....posing a danger to themselves and passing motorists. The last episode occured last year. A boarder who had just bought his horse, and from the same man we bought our OTTB from, had his horse get hit by a car and killed.


    Thirdly, horses are grouped together in volatile cicrumstances. In other words, horses are put out with other horses despite knowing that these groupings have serious aggression issues. One instance of said unwise turnout groupings resulted in a horse being viciously attacked by the alpha and a sidekick of his and the horse was run through a fence. The horse died.


    Now, IMO, safe and reliable fencing is A MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY of the BO...but in this case, the fencing continues to be inadequate enough to allow the horses to escape and pose a danger to themselves and motorists travelling a major state highway which passes near their property. Horses are turned out with others despite the BO knowing there were issues...I know this because we used to go trail riding with her as she runs a trail riding and she would always say to keep this horse from that one or they would fight....or kick, etc. AND having so many colic issues would have me doing some serious property checks for chemicals, toxic plants or trees, or reevaluating my feeding regimen.
    This is where being a responsible horse owner comes in. The horse still belongs to you (general you), it is still your responsibility to inspect and approve the area that your horse will reside in.

    If you are not happy with the conditions the horse will be living in, then don't let your horse live there!
    Alwaysbehind likes this.
         
        11-17-2011, 10:19 AM
      #28
    Banned
    Beausant, if someone is stupid enough to board at a facility as bad as you describe it is not the barn owner's fault if something happens.

    The horse owner is responsible for the situation in which they put their horse.

    You can not drop your horse at the cheapest place with crappy fencing and a nasty colic history and then scream foul when your horse gets injured on the crappy fencing or ends up with colic.



    If a BO is held liable for every injury a horse causes itself then we will quickly run out of places to board our horses.
    That is why there is a clause about them not being responsible unless it is a case of gross negligence.
    mls and HowClever like this.
         
        11-17-2011, 10:46 AM
      #29
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HowClever    
    This is where being a responsible horse owner comes in. The horse still belongs to you (general you), it is still your responsibility to inspect and approve the area that your horse will reside in.

    If you are not happy with the conditions the horse will be living in, then don't let your horse live there!

    Ummm....did you even READ my post? I didn't say I boarded there. I said
    Quote:
    a boarding facility in my area
    .

    I DID say that the owner has a trail riding business and that we used to go trail riding on the battlefield using her horses.

    NEVER said I boarded there, dreamed of boarding there, considered boarding there, or consulted a psychic about boarding there.

    Speaking for me PERSONALLY. As for the other people who DO board there, who knows why. But you must consider that they likely DO NOT know about the high colic rate nor the horse that was run through a fence. I am sure she doesn't advertise that. It's not like she's going to say "we've had six horses die of colic in two years, had one killed on the main highway after getting out of the fencing and had one run through a fence"... to her prospective boarders. Now would she?

    We are all adults and realize that sometimes what people advertise and what they actually sell are two different things. And there is no way to know how many horses have died at that property unless you are a psychic. In the boarders' defense.

    Luckily for me, I knew her personally through her trail riding business and witnessed some of the events and heard the others from her own mouth....and am part of a tightly knit horse community where things like this get aroound. Others may not have this benefit.
         
        11-17-2011, 10:46 AM
      #30
    Green Broke
    Did you miss the part where I said "general you"?
         

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