Age to let a stallion breed - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 02:20 AM
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Just say no to breeding (in the USA) at any age. Unless you're breeding some rare, about to be extinct breed, you can stop now, we have plenty, lol. Start back up in a year or 10, when there's a real demand again...

JMO

Last edited by iridehorses; 06-23-2009 at 05:21 PM.
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post #12 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 03:36 PM
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>>>>> Just say no to breeding (in the USA) at any age. Unless you're breeding some rare, about to be extinct breed, you can stop now, we have plenty, lol. Start back up in a year or 10, when there's a real demand again...

I sort of disagree with the above.
The reason that some breeds/types are rare is because there is LESS demand for them-- they fill a narrow, specific niche. Breeders of rare breeds/types who can maintain preservation herds for their own pleasure, or to maintain genetic diversity among the small pool of breeders working with a rare breed, should do so-- but only on a limited basis, as these rare specialty horses often do not easily find homes outside in "general" horsedom. (and most preservation breeders know this and breed accordingly-- its when the rarer specialty types become the latest "fad" and "upstart" new breeders jump in to try to get famous and rich breeding them that it gets disastrous-- look at dog breeding trends as an example.)

On the other hand, there ARE types and disciplines where there is no "rarity" of breed, yet there IS still real demand-- often greater demand than the current supply. IMO breeding should NOT cease in these instances, because good experienced responsible homes exist for these types of horses with people who would not easily find what they are looking for at a friday night sale or from a low dollar irresponsible BYB or rescue.

AND, even if you COULD find what you are after at a BYB-type sale, isn't buying from these venues in a way encouraging continued irresponsible low-end production? Wouldn't it be better in the long run to buy from established, responsible breeders to encourage responsible breeding, rather than "saving" a horse from a sale-- just to have its breeder produce more of the same the next year to again take to the sale? (after all, they were able to unload all the 2009 babies... people must love 'em.....why not make more!?! Business is sure to pick up!)

I would encourage people looking for an equine partner to think long and hard about taking a chance on buying a horse who has an unknown pedigree, unknown training, unknown ownership record, and an unknown history of prior care-- and encourage them to check out reputable breeders/owners who can provide vet, farrier, and care records and a horse that matches its breed association papers.

I am not saying that gems cannot be found among the disadvantaged and unknown-- I know they can, and I know some people are willing to take the risk and some will end up with a great horse--- just saying that if we want fewer disadvantaged and undocumented horses coming from irresponsible homes, avoiding and/or discouraging responsible breeders who keep good records and high breeding and care standards is not a solution.

It is my observation that when, for whatever reason, responsible breeders producing nice mid-range horses pack up and quit, all too often the void is filled by irresponsible BYB type breeders who are not "getting the memo" about reducing breeding.... (and who are more likely to randomly breed any ol' unproven 2 year old colt to whatever mare comes his direction just because he is kolerful and speshul and has his equipment because he is purty and they want the stud fees-- to get back to the original topic of this thread )

Laura Lyon
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Last edited by Eastowest; 06-23-2009 at 03:39 PM.
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post #13 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 04:28 PM
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luvs2ride1979, was that picture really appropriate or necessary? There are children here.
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post #14 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemyPhillip View Post
luvs2ride1979, was that picture really appropriate or necessary? There are children here.

My thoughts exactly.

As far as breeding young - it really depends on the purpose. I have a two year old filly out of a stallion that was two at the time the mare was covered. The stallion owner specifically bred to a mare proven to throw good, consistent offspring. If the resulting foal would of been 'blech', the stud would of been cut. He was not used as a three year old - in training and to give our filly time to start maturing to see what she was like.
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post #15 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastowest View Post
It is my observation that when, for whatever reason, responsible breeders producing nice mid-range horses pack up and quit,

Pretty much what I have done with my stud. He is very well bred with Olympic medal winers all over his pedigree. He breeds true in that he produces himself no matter what he has been bred to and all of them are strong healthy well tempered babies that could go in any discipline the owner wanted.

I simply don't bother to advertise anymore.
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 08:13 PM
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luvs2ride1979, was that picture really appropriate or necessary? There are children here.
Oh pooh, y'all don't have any sense of humor... You went and made poor iride have to delete my fun picture and spoil my post.

And yes, it was quite appropriate. Most kids learn about these kinds of things in school around 4-5th grade. Most "kids" on here are older than that... I found the picture with a simple google image search, even with their "content filter" turned on. There's nothing wrong with a photo of two horses mating. It wasn't like it was a video set to mood music with close-ups... Which I bet you'd be able to find on YouTube.com...
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post #17 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 08:20 PM
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My point is, we have too many horses in the USA right now, or have you not noticed the slump in prices? Supply has risen above demand, so prices fall. It's simple Econ 101. To reconcile the market, supply needs to be reduced, to match demand. The only way to do that in the horse industry is to STOP BREEDING, at least for a while, or SERIOUSLY cut back.

There are plenty of nice and even great stallions out there, but there are even MORE mediocre or poor quality stallions. The mediocre to poor quality mares out there breeding outnumber good or great mares by 3 to 1, and that's being generous... Unless your foals are selling high, and by that I mean HIGHER than pre-9/11 prices, then that's your cue that you should quit, or seriously cut back to only your best mares. Many people have done that, but many have not. I know a few breeders who are producing MORE foals to make up for the slump in prices... Red (the dad from That 70s Show) comes to mind, his key phrase, lol. Breeding more will only further hurt the market and it will take longer to recover.

So, whenever I can, I slip in my "stop breeding" comments, in hopes that maybe someone will take it to heart.

(and no, bringing back slaughter won't help, it will only put a small bandaid on a LARGE wound, and pro-long the healing process...)
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post #18 of 27 Old 06-23-2009, 08:26 PM
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I haven't really noticed a big drop in higher cquality horses. When looking for a horse in the $20,000 range, the prices hadn't really dropped

And it is the responsible owners who breed higher quality horses. So, if they did the "responsible" thing and stooped breeding, then there would just be a lot of low quality horses and not enough high quality ones.
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post #19 of 27 Old 06-24-2009, 06:10 PM
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Yes, and I did say:

Quote:
Unless your foals are selling high, and by that I mean HIGHER than pre-9/11 prices, then that's your cue that you should quit, or seriously cut back to only your best mares.
So sure!, if a breeder's foals are selling at those high prices EASILY, then it wouldn't make sense to cut back or stop producing those foals. However, that's not the case in 90% of breeders selling their foals.

If a breeder is the type to breed, raise, train, THEN sell, then sure, maybe prices will come back up by the time this year's crop is ready to sell. And if their current trained horses are selling well, then of course there's no reason to stop or cut back. However, that's not the case in most of the horse market. Even the expensive horses are taking a hit in many areas.
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post #20 of 27 Old 06-24-2009, 09:23 PM
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luvs2ride1979 said>>>>>So sure!, if a breeder's foals are selling at those high prices EASILY, then it wouldn't make sense to cut back or stop producing those foals. However, that's not the case in 90% of breeders selling their foals.

BUT But but, your first "quit yer breedin'" post on this thread said:

"""Just say no to breeding (in the USA) at any age. Unless you're breeding some rare, about to be extinct breed, you can stop now, we have plenty, lol. Start back up in a year or 10, when there's a real demand again..."""

Breeding something that is selling for good money is not the same as breeding to preserve something rare or nearly extinct..... ??

Laura Lyon
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