April or May foal?
   

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April or May foal?

This is a discussion on April or May foal? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • What is a mares foal date if she was bred between march 23 an april 6 of 2012
  • Dedo E.T.

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  • 1 Post By WSArabians
  • 2 Post By CCH

 
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    02-15-2013, 03:12 AM
  #1
Foal
Question April or May foal?

Before you input please only comment on information pertaining to my questions and/or signs to help determine IF she did in fact take earlier than expected. No comments on their breeding practice please and thankyous ahead.

I took my mare to the breeders the day after I noticed her squirting, winking, acting as if she was in season, etc... (April 29th). Upon intro to the stallion he of course was very excited to meet her, but she didn't allow him to mount. She wasn't kicking or pinning her ears back or anything just would sniff him then walk away and of course peeing. I left her and 2 weeks later the stallion owner told me she did not witness him breed her, but said she would leave them together to see if she would come back in so I didn't have to take her all the way home just to take her back and so the trip wasn't for nothing.

She later called me and said that she wasn't showing any interest in him and had not come back in. I drove up to pay her board (it was getting fairly dark) and as soon as my mare saw me she whinnied then backed up to the stallion and let him mount her. This was the first and only witnessed breeding. I let the stallion owner know as she was out of town and left her hubby in charge. My mare wasn't squirting or winking or showing any signs besides letting him mount. I then left her for awhile longer and picked her up May 30th.

I asked the breeder for their last day of breeding and she told me 2 days after I witnessed him cover her she had heard some noises at night. To be safe I just calculated her expectant foaling date based off May 29th (the last night she was in with him). She was checked and confirmed in foal however after reading other threads on here I was wondering if it would be safer to assume she could have been bred and taken when I first brought her on April 29th (so through May 6th)? Giving her a safe foaling as early as March 22nd (April 1 average) or if I should just stick with April 23rd as the earliest safe foaling? This is a foaling I absolutely want to be present for as she is a maiden (I'm sure she will do fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry).

Could she very well have bred and taken when she was delivered and nobody witnessed her being covered because she was so secretive and would only allow him to cover her at night and then let him cover her later because she's a flirt? (She had let a stallion cover her when she showed no signs before, but no foal resulted of course because of timing. This stallion too only when it got dark.) Would my vet have noticed her being further when she was checked or mot have thought anything of it? Being a maiden I know she can not show any signs and she would be the mare to do that, so waiting for a bag etc.. probably won't be my best bet though I will definitely be checking her. It also would help so I can know whether or not to be alarmed if she were to go earlier than I would have expected (April 23rd or May 3rd). She would have been exposed to him April 29th-May 30th.

Sorry I may just be complicating it more in my head lol. Probably because I have a mare in foal with a palomino colt/filly and have absolutely no idea when she's actually due besides an estimate of May sometime.

Thankyou
     
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    02-15-2013, 03:36 AM
  #2
Trained
How did the vet confirm the pregnancy? Really, good dates should have been able to be obtained by having an US done - this should be routine anyway in the check for twins.

I would be ready to catch a foal any time from the due date expected from the first exposure date, and just be patient if she goes longer.
     
    02-15-2013, 04:33 AM
  #3
Trained
Agreed with Chiilaa. For my mares ultrasound, I was calculating she was 18 days...My vet pinpointed that she was 21 days, meaning she caught the very first day she was bred.

Honestly with your information, there is no way to tell. Be prepared for an early foal just incase is the best advice I can give.
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    02-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #4
Foal
My vet prefers palpation over US, because he can feel things better than an US and has always palpated his mares (whom one consequently always had twins so he is very skilled with this) so he is very reliable and I trust what he is most comfortable with. Okay so it's possible she could have been covered earlier, that's basically what I wanted reassurance of. I know being in with a stallion there was that chance, but I was expecting the breeder to give me dates she was covered and since it was never witnessed except that one time by me I just figured that time frame. Thankyou
     
    02-15-2013, 09:44 AM
  #5
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterCarolina    
My vet prefers palpation over US, because he can feel things better than an US and has always palpated his mares (whom one consequently always had twins so he is very skilled with this) so he is very reliable and I trust what he is most comfortable with. Okay so it's possible she could have been covered earlier, that's basically what I wanted reassurance of. I know being in with a stallion there was that chance, but I was expecting the breeder to give me dates she was covered and since it was never witnessed except that one time by me I just figured that time frame. Thankyou
I refuse to believe there is honestly a vet who believes he can detect twins confidently and accurately by palping the mare. If I met such a vet, I would be considering a different one for any repro work. There is no way to tell by touch that there is two implanted embryos, not even nearly.
     
    02-15-2013, 10:35 AM
  #6
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
I refuse to believe there is honestly a vet who believes he can detect twins confidently and accurately by palping the mare. If I met such a vet, I would be considering a different one for any repro work. There is no way to tell by touch that there is two implanted embryos, not even nearly.
Maybe he has... special fingers?



OP, you got an approximate date, just be on the lookout for signs she's getting close - softening muscles, bigger bag, discomfort, etc.
CCH likes this.
     
    02-15-2013, 01:22 PM
  #7
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
I refuse to believe there is honestly a vet who believes he can detect twins confidently and accurately by palping the mare. If I met such a vet, I would be considering a different one for any repro work. There is no way to tell by touch that there is two implanted embryos, not even nearly.

Lol he is actually a very good vet and very knowledgeable I am probably just making it sound bad . I wasn't present for her exams so I could just not know all the details so I wouldn't discredit him just yet. I was told she was pregnant via palpation, but then they just said there was one healthy baby and she is healthy which was my first concern. (I board my mare at my parents and they had the exam done) She did have an US to check the pregnancy for asynchronous ovulations if I'm not mistaken I think would have been day 27 however all I was told was that there was one baby and she was doing good. Nothing on dates or anything and she has been seen again to ensure she hadn't slipped so twins are not a worry.

Lol WSarabians I am probably just not informed on all that was done because I'm pretty sure she had blood tests done too though for what I have no idea, my mom is the one taking care of everything for me because she has the experience I don't and I'm more so worried about my mare and a safe foaling. My mom worked with all of the rest so she surely would have done what she thought necessary. It would be perfectly normal for me to just not know all the details. I do know he did say he likes palpation better, but that may have been for checking for follicles and tone I'm not entirely sure. Okay so I should probably not speak any more on what was done with her as I do not know , but to be prepared in case there is an early foal because it is possible I just wasn't certain and that's what I wanted to know. I'm pretty certain she is probably going on her May due date.
Thankyou everyone for your replies and I'm sorry I have no idea what I'm talking about other than she is in foal and the time frame she was with a stud present sometimes I over think.
     
    02-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #8
CCH
Weanling
Using 320 as an early healthy date and 342 as an average healthy date:

First exposed is April 29th, 2012
320 days gestation = March 15, 2013
342 days gestation = April 6, 2013

Last exposed May 30, 2012
320 days gestation = April 15, 2013
342 days gestation = May 7, 2013

If she is housed outside, some literature discusses those mares will be on the longer end of average (340-370) My mares are outside until a couple weeks before their expected foaling date when they come in at night only. Using that method, they have tended to be 340-350. After reading that study, I'm bringing my broodmares under the lights & heat earlier than normal. This will hopefully get them to foal a few days sooner than their personal averages.

Looks like you will need to watch your mare starting now and really be vigilant with watching her beginning in March. Being that she is maiden, you will have your work cut out for you. This is the problem with pasture breeding - you have almost zero ability to calculate when the mare will need certain health care like vaccinations, worming, pregnancy scans, etc. Without ultrasounds at certain intervals, you cannot check the fluid or check for placentitis, etc. There is nothing to do at this point other than provide good nutrition and update her vaccines and deworm as necessary. Get ready to wait, and wait, and wait some more.

I would suggest starting a chart. Take her vitals 2x/day if you can. A caliper is best, but if you have a soft measuring tape, measure her udder size and length of her vulva daily. Grade her ability to resist tail lifting as well as the laxity of muscles in her hind end. Use all this data to establish a baseline, then you will have an idea of when she is nearer to foaling.
     
    02-15-2013, 05:59 PM
  #9
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCH    
Using 320 as an early healthy date and 342 as an average healthy date:

First exposed is April 29th, 2012
320 days gestation = March 15, 2013
342 days gestation = April 6, 2013

Last exposed May 30, 2012
320 days gestation = April 15, 2013
342 days gestation = May 7, 2013

If she is housed outside, some literature discusses those mares will be on the longer end of average (340-370) My mares are outside until a couple weeks before their expected foaling date when they come in at night only. Using that method, they have tended to be 340-350. After reading that study, I'm bringing my broodmares under the lights & heat earlier than normal. This will hopefully get them to foal a few days sooner than their personal averages.

Looks like you will need to watch your mare starting now and really be vigilant with watching her beginning in March. Being that she is maiden, you will have your work cut out for you. This is the problem with pasture breeding - you have almost zero ability to calculate when the mare will need certain health care like vaccinations, worming, pregnancy scans, etc. Without ultrasounds at certain intervals, you cannot check the fluid or check for placentitis, etc. There is nothing to do at this point other than provide good nutrition and update her vaccines and deworm as necessary. Get ready to wait, and wait, and wait some more.

I would suggest starting a chart. Take her vitals 2x/day if you can. A caliper is best, but if you have a soft measuring tape, measure her udder size and length of her vulva daily. Grade her ability to resist tail lifting as well as the laxity of muscles in her hind end. Use all this data to establish a baseline, then you will have an idea of when she is nearer to foaling.
I see so I should have gone off first exposure and not last exposure? She is outside 24/7 of course with shelter. I have been getting her vaccinated along the lines of her May due date, I hope that isn't an issue and she is still on her deworming routine. She has been getting her supplements and she is healthy, no fescue in her diet either so everything else has been taken care of. I will have to start keeping track on her progression. I have my pasture on camera so at least I don't have to walk in and out to check on her come March. Her foal is still kicking up a storm and she is still her regular self. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.
     
    12-14-2013, 02:36 AM
  #10
Foal
Hi QuarterCarolina, My name is "Joni" and I own "Bold Kiss". Would you please contact me. I would love to see pictures of the resulting foal. My email address is pepperedhorses@gmail.com or you can call me at 541-515-3262
     

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