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Backyard breeding... It bugs me.

This is a discussion on Backyard breeding... It bugs me. within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

     
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        05-13-2010, 06:26 AM
      #31
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
    The 2 stallions I am down to are both bays. Which means I will Get drum roll please.................. A BAY.
    Depending on their genetics, you could also get black or chestnut ;)

    I do NOT breed for color, but I AM horse color genetics obsessed, so I DO have an interest in knowing what color the foal could end up being, but just because of my curiousity, not because it matters :)
         
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        05-13-2010, 06:28 AM
      #32
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justsambam08    
    Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog,

    There are plenty of purebred allergy friendly dogs. Labs are not one of those, so when you cross a poodle (which is) with a lab (which isn't), you really do NOT know what you'll get. (labradoodle just as an example)

    or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that,

    There are PLENTY of versatile breeds. The purebred poodle in itself is a very versatile breed.

    IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like) but some of the combinations are just stupid. Another thing, WHY do we need a 'toy' version of everything these days?!?

    Next thing you know, it'll catch on in the horse world and we'll start having minature thoroughbreds and quarter horses.

    I think BYB's are why some people choose to stay away from "grade" horses. Although they're just as good, it perpetuates the cycle?

    (won't let me post with my reply only in the quotes...)
         
        05-13-2010, 08:57 AM
      #33
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justsambam08    
    Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like)
    Technically the labradoodle STILL isn't a breed, no matter how many reckless half-assed registries are willing to take them on. The have never been able to get them to breed true. They have never given consistent breed traits, and they have never been consistently hypo-allergenic. They are a nice enough mixed-bred dog. Collie/shepherds also make very nice dogs - but they are still mutts and shouldn't be bred on purpose and charged a fortune for.

    And just for interest purposes - the person who pioneered the creation of the labradoodle breed recently released an "I'm sorry" statement and comments on how much he regrets ever starting the movement:

    FOXNews.com - Labradoodle Pioneer Regrets Fashioning 'Designer Dog'
         
        05-13-2010, 09:27 AM
      #34
    Showing
    If you want a hypoallergenic dog, get a Poodle.

    If you want a fairly large, hypoallergenic dog, get a standard Poodle.

    Standards are lovely, intelligent, and very hardy dogs. My next dog is probably going to be a standard Poodle.

    IMO, there's absolutely no reason to breed mutts and call them 'designer' dogs. The people who will pay an exorbitant price for mutts are idiots.

    The Puggle is one that gets my goat. Yeah, let's take a Pug and a Beagle and mate 'em! You usually get a dog who has trouble breathing, and bays when they get excited. How is that desirable?

    I bought my Great Dane from a very reputable breeder. She makes no money on her dogs, and is in it for the sheer love of and desire to improve the breed.

    She requires vet and personal references, and she gives a 2 year heath guarantee on her puppies. She also tells people if they can't keep their dog, she'll take it back no questions asked.

    She only breeds one or two litters a year, always has a waiting list, and many of her buyers are return customers.

    That's a reputable breeder.
         
        05-13-2010, 09:46 AM
      #35
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    IStandards are lovely, intelligent, and very hardy dogs. My next dog is probably going to be a standard Poodle.
    Agreed! Standard poodles are lovely, hardy, and very athletic, intelligent dogs! Tremendously under-credited breed. I have a Standard that comes to me for herding. She's titled in agility, obedience, she has competed in several field hunting trials, AND she is currently halfway to her herding title! You don't get more versatile then that!

    Why in the world would you cross that with a lab (no offense to lab owners) and think you are making an improvement?
         
        05-13-2010, 09:55 AM
      #36
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justsambam08    
    Someone posted about dogs, so I have to comment, lol. There are SOME designer dogs that actually had a purpose--like trying to make a more allergy friendly dog, or making a more versatile breed (the labradoodle is an example of that, IMO they are EXCELLENT dogs, I've never met one I didn't like)
    Why there are already dogs out there that fit these bills. There are already dogs who do not shed. There are already dogs who are hypoallergenic. There is a breed that will do what ever it is you need them to do. There is no need to cross breed a dog. Plus you have NO guarantee you will get what you THINK you are breeding for.
         
        05-13-2010, 09:56 AM
      #37
    Showing
    Indy, were you aware that several years ago there was a team of standard Poodles in the Iditarod?

    They didn't win, but they did finish the competition. Now go on and tell me that Poodles are 'wimpy'!
         
        05-13-2010, 09:57 AM
      #38
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CheyAut    
    Depending on their genetics, you could also get black or chestnut ;)

    I do NOT breed for color, but I AM horse color genetics obsessed, so I DO have an interest in knowing what color the foal could end up being, but just because of my curiousity, not because it matters :)

    I do not breed for color either. However there is NO other option with this cross. The mare is EEAA
         
        05-13-2010, 10:04 AM
      #39
    Yearling
    I love my "hybrid" dog. He is half beagle, half jack russel (jack beagle? Beaussle?) and he cost me a $50 donation from a rescue organization. He's a mutt, plain and simple, and he's lumpy and has extra toes, and I wouldn't trade him for the most expensive designer dog in the world.
         
        05-13-2010, 10:13 AM
      #40
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lacyloo    
    ...So does this mean that horses should only be allowed to breed in the FRONT yard?...
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, very nice .
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
    and again I ask... what do you consider a reputable breeder?
    Mhmm, I was going to go with this too...
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Honeysuga    
    I consider a backyard breeder someone with out
    A( the means to financially cover any and all expenses accrued by a pregnant mare both during gestation and during delivery, and any potential issues with the foal afterward
    B( adequate and safe facilities for the pregnant mare and foal
    C( a specific goal for the foal other than to just have a baby,
    Also d( someone who breeds just to sell and does not take the time to find a suitable stallion mare pair to breed for specific traits and performance
    E( someone who breeds for emotional reasons
    *Nods head*, Agreed.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by equiniphile    
    ^Or someone who breeds just because they have a mare and stally at their disposal
    Yep, stallions especially. I'm not totally sure why we bash stallions more than mares (probably because it's easier to chop off 2 nuts than surgically remove a uterus.. Or however mares are spayed), but most of these "great studs" either need to be dinner, or a cute gelding (: .
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Indyhorse    
    To add to Honeysuga's points:

    F) someone who breeds horses together regardless of breed or quality, just to "make a baby"
    G) someone who assumes because they like their horse, and think it's pretty, that makes it breeding quality, without seeking, or ignoring outside opinion

    Marks of a good/reputable breeder:

    Proves their horse has a REASON to reproduce, generally through showing or working competition, or their horse proves itself in the working ranch environment

    Gains OUTSIDE opinion that their horses are of breeding quality

    Has horses vetted, up to date, performs health screening and std checks before breeding

    Is able to provide proof that their breeding stock has been tested and is free of any/all genetic diseases particular to their breed and that they are breeding sound animals

    Seeks to match animals for breeding together that best compliment and compensate for each other's shortcomings, rather than breeding to the animal that is "cheapest" or "closest"

    And, particularly in the case of dogs - sticks with one freaking breed!
    For the bold text: yep, that about hits every aspect on the nose..
    For the red text: Oh yeah, you have no idea! We had an accident litter (my bitch was in heat [at a year old], and a 10 mo. Wiener dog managed to get it in.. and BAM puppies. I hate that little dog.. He ruined my bitch..), and people went nuts over the yorkie/dacshound cross. We named the cross "Dorkies". My bitch is now spayed.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShutUpJoe    
    A reputable breeder is someone who takes responsibility for the animals they reproduce. I had two Dalmatians growing up. One from a very reputable breeder and one from the guy down the road. There was a brief period of time when we thought we'd have to re-home our dogs due to financial reasons. The reputable breeder offered to take our (spayed) dog back no problems. The guy down the street told me take the dog to the pound.

    A reputable breeder would make sure that the person getting a puppy (for example) was knowledgeable about the breed or at least willing to learn. This would prevent so many dogs being homeless.

    A reputable breeder makes sure their puppies leave with shots, de-wormed and proper socialization.

    A reputable breeder looks out for the betterment of the breed, including function, good genes and temperament. They don't breed because of color or size. (100 plus lb "Pit Bulls" and 6 ounce Chihuahuas)

    A reputable breeder has their breeding stock tested for all possible defects to prevent future generations from having to deal with health problems. I'm not saying it's an exact science but it helps.

    They do not breed for money. In fact some come out even and some come out owing. They do not sell a puppy just because you have cash in your hand.

    They do not list their puppies on craigslist or kijiji or hoobly. They do not stick fliers on the grocery store's wall. They do not need to.

    They are knowledgeable about their breed. They can answer your questions and tell you what to expect. They are willing to answer more question should they arise.

    They offer a health guarantee and a bill of sale.

    They would NEVER sell to a pet store.

    A back-yard-breeder:

    Has several litters a year.
    Often the puppies are not registered.
    They do not care who buys the puppy.
    Often the puppies do not have shots.
    They don't think about the puppies futures.
    They make excuses for breeding "dog got out came home pregnant", "wanted to let my kids see puppies born", "my Poopsie is so sweet she should have puppies"....
    Prices are usually cheaper.
    Willing to sell to pet stores.

    Back yard breeders are the main reason why there is an epidemic of homeless pets. This is my opinion, take it as you may. It is what I believe and see. I have volunteered at high kill shelters. I have seen pregnant dogs, puppies, purebreds put in the garbage can. I cannot unsee what I have seen. I offer my home whenever a dog is in need but I can only take in so many and only do so much. Why do I have to clean up the mess that these people are creating? I just wish I could walk them through the shelters and show them what they are doing!
    I do agree with most of this, but our puppies (second and last litter from the bitch) we're registered, vet checked, socialized, got their shots, and we placed an ad in the paper to sell the pups. We sold for $1,000 a pup, and $750 for one that was large and had a high chance of hip displaysia (sp?). I regret breeding my dog, but were we "good" owners/BYB for doing the right thing for less desirable pups? We also worked a deal with the sire of the pups for a money/pup deal... I still wonder how the 9 pups Misha had are doing..
         

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