Is this a bad thing?
 
 

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Is this a bad thing?

This is a discussion on Is this a bad thing? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Smart chic olena dead
  • Jag clinton anderson

 
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    03-31-2009, 03:14 PM
  #1
Weanling
Is this a bad thing?

My new issue of Horse and Rider came in, and I just read an article about Clinton Anderson letting his horse "Chicoutmyblingbling" aka Jag (Son of Smart Chic Olena x Princess In Diamonds) stand for stud at Texas A&M.

Anyone can breed any amount of mares of any breed to this stud for a flat fee of $1,500.00 (half of the stud fee will be donated to Texas A&M for their horse program). Texas A&M can breed him for free to as many of their horses as they would like.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea with good intentions?

And some questions....

1: Won't this ruin Smart Chic Olenas stud value? Seeing as anyone with a Mare and $1,500.00 can get grandfilly/colt from him? Won't this cheapen the value of the other Grandchildren his offspring have foaled?

2: Will this result in an influx of breeding (Again, anyone with a mare and $1,500.00 can get a Smart Chic Olena Grandchild AND say they bred their mare to Clinton Anderson's horse)? With an Influx of Breeding, there usually comes an influx of Slaughter. Don't we already have a ton of horses that need homes? Now unpapered mixed breed horses have to compete with Jag's foals for suitable homes.

3: Clinton said: "I think he'll cross well not just with Quarter Horses and Paints, but also with Thoroughbreds or even gaited mares." Breeding Jag to a Gaited Horse doesn't seem like a hot idea to me.. I think it will compromise the integrity of both breeds and the result may end up as Slaughter bait. Maybe that's just me personally saying that.. but I can't think why I would breed a Walking Horse to a Quarter Horse. I don't think either association would paper the baby.

I think that its really nice that he is giving up his really talented and well bred horse to Texas A&M to help provide people who cannot afford a $10,000.00 stud fee (what other Smart Chic Olena offspring are asking for fees) with a well bred horse... and its awesome that half the proceeds go to the school, and he is allowing them to breed for free, so the students can raise the colts then sell them and make even more money...

But did everyone in the Horse and Rider magazine forget about the Unwanted Horse Coalition? About the excess of unwanted horses that desperately need homes? The poor economy causing people to bite off more than they can chew and the horses suffer?

I don't know.. I see this resulting in a lot of homeless horses. Not Jag's offspring, but the horses whose stall they took when they needed to be weaned. (if that makes sense). I have met plenty of people in my years in the Horse World who will gladly pay $1,500.00 to breed their mare to a "famous" horse, but not have the money to pay for farrier work, vet work, etc. A lot of those people also tend to think they can sell the baby for a profit. I'm sure you guys have met people like this too... and I forsee them buying the most stud fees.

This all kind of bums me out =/ ...what do you guys think?
     
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    05-23-2009, 09:17 PM
  #2
Yearling
Sadly, I'm going to have to say I agree. Good intentions, but a bad idea.
     
    05-23-2009, 10:21 PM
  #3
amy
Foal
Yeah... I saw the article too. I thought the same thing.
I was dissapointed with Clinton for not thinking of all the horses that would be sent to slaughter because of the Jag babies. I would be mad if I were Smart Chic Olena's owners. Definitely makes his value less.

Also, with all these breeders going to this one stud, there is a higher chance of inbreeding in the future... especially those that are crossbred and won't have papers to say that they are from the same father :/

I really like Jag but I don't like the idea.
     
    05-24-2009, 04:55 AM
  #4
Showing
I agree completely. But you know what they say......"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." It is a nice try to make some money for the college but I have been to their campus and looked at their tuition. They are not exactly hurting for money (especially in the equine programs). 20 years ago, this would not have seemed to be such a big thing but with things are as they are now, it is going to end badly in the long run.
     
    05-24-2009, 05:36 AM
  #5
Weanling
As for ruining Chic Olena's value, no. It will remain highly valued as it is still under select breedings. As for tons more of horses being produced and flooding the market.. Probably not. At $1500 a breeding, I don't think there is much to worry about in that regard.

Now as for "Chicoutmyblingbling" value.. It will decrease as an open breeding market on him to open bookings, not exactly what one would want to do with their stud. It may loose any breeders trust incentives with going open for breed varieties.

When it comes to studs, you want as many foals on the ground as you can safely put out to a show market. But you want to go either two ways to hold or increase value. One is an exclusive market or a select market. What Anderson is doing is not really what AQHA or APHA would consider "improving the breed" with his program. I am not fond of it, nor impressed. This was a nice stud, overpriced because of his signature and that's it, but now yes, with many of his studs offspring being open to various breeds, and wrecklessly, that studs lineage wont hold value generations down the line because of this. But the lineage above him wont be effected. So, if I were looking into breeding outside of my stock and looking to bring some Olena into my stock, it wont be with anything Chicoutmyblingbling. I don't mean to be harsh, but I am not impressed with this action, nor with Anderson himself.
     
    05-25-2009, 06:02 PM
  #6
Yearling
Yeh I have to agree... not a very good idea at all. For so many reasons.
     
    05-27-2009, 12:21 PM
  #7
Green Broke
Mmmm, I have to disagree. Maybe it's not the greatest idea ever concocted, but $1500 still isn't anything to sneeze at. It's not a fee idiots with horrifically conformed mares are going to be willing to pay. In my experience, the vast majority of slaughter bait (aside from racehorses of course) is still from cheaply bred horses. People who have no idea what they're doing simply aren't willing to pay a $1500 stud fee when they can breed to Ol' Dobbin down the road for $100.

And if nothing else, I think this gesture may actually HELP the horse community and even Jag's value. $1500 is still steep enough to make people serious, so the crossbreeding will help eliminate the faults we see running rampant in pedigreed horses and very likely produce even better offspring. Typically, only people with a goal in mind are likely to pay that to produce a crossbreed, so being unable to compete in registry shows isn't likely to be an enormous issue, they'll just turn to open competition.

However, the price is still low enough to encourage people to breed to a quality stallion since to the serious breeder, the worth of the foal is obviously going to outdo what they'd get breeding to some random $500 stud. I think it helps the "little" breeders who know what they want to produce but just can't afford astronomical stud fees to get it.

However, it COULD go bad. You could see a serious influx of the same blood causing problems down the road with inbreeding. It's really hard to say, but I don't see it being a "terrible" idea.
     
    05-27-2009, 12:59 PM
  #8
Started
I'm really disappointed in him. It's a very bad idea for many reasons.
     
    06-30-2009, 10:17 PM
  #9
Foal
Okay. I must disagree. With all due respect,
1) I don't think you need to worry about diminishing Smart Chic Olena's value; he is an NRHA $9 million sire and a NRCHA $1 million sire.
2) Will Clinton Anderson's decision to stand his stallion for a $1,500 cause an influx of breeding/slaughter - You've got to be kidding me. Although I completely agree that many people make foolish choices when it comes to equine reproduction, which can have devestating consequences, this will be a problem regardless of whether Clinton Anderson decides to stand his stud.
3) Cross-breeding has been used for centuries to improve various breeds. As long as the books have not been closed by the sponsoring breed association, offspring can be registered.
Finally, I do understand why you worry about the legions of unwanted and/or neglected homes that need a good home. Of course we all wish that all horses had great homes, like the three of mine do, living on 15 acres of pastureland in Texas with a big 2 story barn, lots of attention and full vet and farrier care. However, the reality is, this is not the case. Although I am a horse lover to the core, I think that the real tragedy is the closing of the horse slaughter facilities in the United States, the result of which is that horses must be sent down to Mexico for slaughter, where instead of being humanely euthanized, they are subjected to a barbaric death in which knives are plunged into their withers until they bleed to death. If you want to be angry at anybody, be angry at those responsible for this, and not at Clinton Anderson.
Rich people are just as capable of abuse and neglect as poor people, and a $1,500 stud fee is hardly anything to sneeze at. I have observed that Clinton Anderson works tirelessly to educate and inspire horse owners so that they may be safe and successful in their equine pursuits. Your time will be better served studying and practicing his methods than criticizing his decision to share world class bloodlines at a price that average people can afford.
In summary, don't blame Clinton Anderson for the problems of the world. He is part of the solution.
     
    09-15-2009, 12:54 PM
  #10
Foal
Would you buy this for 1,500?

1,500 is a small price to pay for a stud fee-and a small price for this filly!

If you all will recall FEUERTANZER, the trakhner stallion that stood in CA. He was injured and cut his career short so they started breeding him for free. I jumped at this opportunity (I was 19 y/o) and raised a beautiful filly for dressage, and hunters.
All I had to pay was the collection fee, vet fees, and shipping. BUT SO DID EVERYONE ELSE! He put out around 150+ foals each year.
As you can see this filly is worth about 3-4k low end. The market was flooded with these foals. I hand raised this girl and ended up selling her at 3 years old for $1,500.
LET ME DEFINE HAND RAISED: Endless vet, farrier bills, the best feeds, trading equipment for Alfalfa, shipping and schooling, hours of brushing, tacking, watching C.A. And using his techniques in the round pen, schooling on the trailer...I could keep going for a while. Oh, and this filly would jump in the trailer and I would take her to the car wash, vaccume her and wash her with the pressure washer...I did all the de-sensitising stuff!
I currently have a Boomernicker mare O/O a Boogie's Flashy Jac daughter and I am scared to breed to jag for the fear of a flooded market.
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