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Breed worthy stallion?

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    08-10-2008, 10:05 PM
Personally, I'm not too big of a fan of saddlbreds. But I do really like this guy. For some reason the links to your babies dam's page didn't work, but as far as the stallion, I think he is a good standard of the breed from what I know about them. That's just a vague assessment mind you I could be off, because as I said, saddlebreds aren't my area of expertise.
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    08-11-2008, 01:14 AM
The Stallion is not a full Saddlebred. His sire was a Saddlebred(The Color of Fame) and his dam was a Half Arab. I am not an expert, but what I see on the sire's side is a little obscure. Nothing jumping out at me up close. Probably because of the paint side.

For a Saddlebred(even though he is not one) he does not mount up as well as I'd like to see. He is a little foreward headed, and his neck is a bit short. He has good motion, though I would like to see a bit more, especially because of his color. Regardless of color, he physically is not something that I would consider, because there are better horses to choose from of solid color and even from other Stallions of color.

Your colt is a cutie, though he is kind of an odd one. He has a lot of Arab and a little Saddlebred in him. He's bound to be game enough to do whatever non-show event you'd like to do.
    08-11-2008, 03:11 AM
I just thought I'd post this since it seemed like a lot of people didn't know much about the breed standard for the saddlebred. I know some of it repetes but I got it from a few different sites. Although scout is only half saddlebred I do see some similar characteristics from the breed standard. I'm going to look up the arabian breed standard and try to mix the two together and see if I find something similar to what scout is.

The ideal American Saddlebred is well-proportioned and presents a beautiful overall picture. Large, wide-set expressive eyes and gracefully shaped ears set close together are positioned on a well-shaped head. The neck is long with a fine, clean throatlatch and is arched and well-flexed at the poll. The American Saddlebred sports well-defined and prominent withers, while the shoulders are deep and sloping. Well-sprung ribs and a strong level back also characterize the breed. The legs are straight with broad flat bones, sharply defined tendons and sloping pasterns. Saddlebreds are usually black, bay, chestnut, or brown, but grays, buckskins, palominos, pintos and occasionally roans are also found. The average height is 15-16 hh, but can also be as small as 14.2 hh or taller than 17 hh.

Breed of light horse that originated in the U.S. The breed was developed by crossing Thoroughbreds, Morgans, and Standardbreds on native mares having an easy gait. It stands 15 16 hands (5 5.3 ft [1.5 1.6 m]) high, and its colours are bay, brown, black, gray, and chestnut.

The ideal American Saddlebred is well-proportioned and presents a beautiful overall picture. The animal should be in good flesh, with good muscle tone and a smooth, glossy coat. Masculinity in stallions and femininity in mares are important and should be taken into consideration. The average height is 15 to 16 hands and the weight 1,000 - 1,200 pounds. Any colour is acceptable including pinto's.

The American Saddlebred should be easily identified and individuals should possess "type" so that they are not confused with another breed. The American Saddlebred should possess QUALITY: he should have clean, dense bones that are both fine and yet indicating substance. His tendons and joints should be sharply defined, his hair fine and he should have the general appearance of refinement. He should be of gentle disposition, be both active and intelligent and generally be of good temperament.

His head should be carried relatively high; size and dimensions in proportion, with clear-cut features, well-chiselled, smooth jaw line. The head should be well-shaped with large, wide-set expressive eyes, gracefully shaped, perhaps pointed ears set close together on top of the head and carried alertly; a straight face line with a relatively fine muzzle and large nostrils and a clean and smooth jaw line.

The American Saddlebred should have a long and supple neck, rising out of well defined and prominent withers, which extend well into the back. The neck should be arched and well-flexed at the poll with a fine, clean throatlatch. He should have deep, sloping shoulders that are long and muscular.

The front leg should set well forward under the shoulder. The line of the hind leg, in a natural stance, should be vertical from the point of the buttock to the back edge of the cannon bone. The forearms and hindquarters should be well muscled to the knees and hocks. His forearms should be long and descend to straight and deep knees. His legs should be straight with broad flat bones, short cannons, sharply defined tendons and long, smooth and sloping pasterns (45 degrees for the front legs ideally, but should match the angle of the shoulder). His hooves should be sound and open at the heel, neither toed in nor toed out, with large elastic frogs and wide heels.

His chest should be medium-wide and deep and his flanks deep and long, with a low underline and not tucked. His back should be strong, level and broad, with well sprung, long and close ribs. He should have a long and level croup with a well carried tail coming out high. His hips should be broad, round and smooth, set on full, muscular thighs. The American Saddlebred should possess broad and muscular gaskins and his hocks should be straight, wide, point prominent, deep, clean-cut, smooth and well-supported.
    08-11-2008, 03:16 AM
Sorry for the length but I thought it was all pretty cool info about arabians.

Today, Arabian bloodlines are found in almost every modern breed of riding horse.

Arabian horses have refined, wedge-shaped heads, a broad forehead, large eyes, large nostrils, and small muzzles. Most display a distinctive concave or "dished" profile. Many Arabians also have a slight forehead bulge between their eyes, called the "jibbah" by the Bedouin, that adds additional sinus capacity, believed to have helped the Arabian horse in its native dry desert climate.[1][2] Another breed characteristic is an arched neck with a large, well-set windpipe set on a refined, clean throatlatch. This structure of the poll and throatlatch was called the mitbah or mitbeh by the Bedouin, and in the best Arabians is long, allowing flexibility in the bridle and room for the windpipe.[1][2]

Other distinctive features are a relatively long, level croup and naturally high tail carriage. Well-bred Arabians have a deep, well-angled hip and well laid-back shoulder. Most have a compact body with a short back.[2] Some, though not all, have 5 lumbar vertebrae instead of the usual 6, and 17 rather than 18 pairs of ribs.[3] Thus, even a small Arabian can carry a heavy rider with ease. Arabians usually have dense, strong bone, sound feet, and good hoof walls. They are especially noted for endurance.

Some people confuse the refinement of Arabians with having weak or too-light bone.[6] However, the USEF breed standard requires Arabians have solid bone and correct conformation,[7] and the superiority of the breed in endurance competition clearly demonstrates that well-bred Arabians are strong, sound horses with good bone and superior stamina. At international levels of FEI-sponsored endurance events, Arabians and half-Arabians are the dominant performers in distance competition worldwide.

A common myth is that Arabians are not strong because of their size. However, the Arabian horse is noted for a greater density of bone than other breeds, short cannons, sound feet, and a broad, short back;[2] all of which give the breed physical strength comparable to many taller animals.
    08-11-2008, 03:27 AM
I'm sorry dear, but your Scout is NOT half Saddlebred. His sire is half Saddlebred. The paint horse that is in those photos is not a full blood saddlebred, according to his pedigree in the links you provided. According to the links he is a National Show Horse(which even I am not sure of, because it was my understanding that the NSH had to be a straight cross from a full Saddlebred and a full Arab and this stallion's dam is a Half Arab and not even a NSH because neither parent of the dam is listed in the ASHA Registry. I looked. Granted I don't know anything more about NSHs)

Thank you for posting the standards for the breeds though.

(psst, Saddlebreds are in my blood, love )
    08-11-2008, 03:33 AM
If scouts sire is 1/2 saddlebred and 1/2 arabian and his dam is 1/2 saddlebred and 1/2 arabian... that should make scout 1/2 saddlebred and 1/2 arabian... or am I missing something?

Scout is a national show horse... he is a arabian/saddlebred mix
    08-11-2008, 03:43 AM
This made me do a little research on the National Show Horse, as I knew nothing about them.

Here is a useful link for you to know more about the NSH and the rules pertaining to them.

It seems that three types of mares are acceptable to create a NSH: Saddlebred, Arab, or a NSH. (I was wrong about the full ASB/full Arab thing). This was found in the "Breed Rules" section.

II. Eligible Broodmares

Breeders can use three breeds of mares to produce National Show Horses. Arabians, Saddlebreds and National Show Horses can be used to produce NSH foals when bred to the appropriate breed of stallion. Only these breeds of mares are eligible.

A. Eligibility

The following broodmares are eligible to produce registerable National Show Horses. The resultant horse is only eligible when the mare is bred to the appropriate stallion such that the foal possesses a minimum of 25% but less than 100% Arabian blood, as indicated below.

1. NSHR registered mares:

A. Registered National Show Horse mares with 50% or more Arabian blood may be bred to:

I) Registered National Show Horse stallion;

ii) Arabian stallion;

iii) Saddlebred stallion.

(See section I Stallion Nomination and Fees.)

B. Registered National Show Horse mares with less than 50% Arabian blood may be bred to:

I) Registered National Show Horse stallion;

ii) Arabian stallion.

(See section I Stallion Nomination and Fees.)

2. American Saddlebred mares registered with the American Saddlebred Horse Association, Inc. Or the Saddlebred Horse Association of Canada are eligible and must be registered in the name of the person applying as owner of the foal. ASHA and/or SHAC registered mares may be bred to:

A. Registered National Show Horse stallion with 50% or more Arabian blood;

B. Arabian stallion.

(See section I Stallion Nomination and Fees.)

3. Arabian mares registered with the Arabian Horse Association or the Canadian Arabian Registry, Inc. Or the World Arabian Horse Organization (WAHO) are eligible and must be registered in the name of the person applying as owner of the foal. AHA or CAHR or WAHO registered mares may be bred to:

A. Registered National Show Horse stallion;

B. Saddlebred stallion.

(See section I Stallion Nomination and Fees).

4. Effective with foals born in 1999, all mares must have blood type/DNA information on file with the NSHR prior to registration of foals.

B. Rebreeding to a Different Stallion

Those mares not involved as donor mares in an embryo transfer program are required to wait 42 days before being bred to a different stallion.

C. Breeder of Record

The breeder of a horse is the owner of the dam at the time of service. Individuals using leased mares in the production of National Show Horses may be listed as the breeder of record by having the owner of the dam at the time of service complete the "Breeder Of Record" portion of an application for registration.
Hah, you learn something new everyday!
    08-11-2008, 03:45 AM
I looked up the names of the Scout's Sire's Dam's(the one listed as HARA) parents, and neither one were registered Saddlebreds.

*** Correction! The Dam's parents may have been registered with the Canadian Saddlebred Registry, and so I do not think would be listed in the ASHA database. It is a possibility.
    08-11-2008, 03:59 AM
I'd say its 2/4 saddlebred.. but I don't know.. is that possible..
    08-11-2008, 11:32 AM
Well 2/4 = 1/2 saddlebred... from what I got from his bloodlines I found on the net he's 1/2 saddlebred and 1/2 arabian. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me?

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