Breeding Gone Wrong

>>>>> Although these stories are sad (and I really do feel your pain and sympathise with you, I am sorry for the losses) it is a REALITY in breeding, one you have to be prepared to deal with.

Thanks, and yes, these tragedies are part of the absolute reality of breeding horses.

>>>> Eastowest, your posts scared the hell out of me. I don't think I'm going to breed my mare anymore... or, at least not for a LONG time...

Trust me, it is sobering just reminiscing about these events. But, while out hugging my "babies", (I really did step away from the 'puter to take a horsey recharge, LOL) I noticed one of our mares I had been waiting on finally showing heat, so she was teased, prepped and bred.... and I have another already vet-confirmed in-foal, and two others to be checked next week.

Yep, I continue to selectively breed with full knowledge that each pregnancy and foaling could be a disaster-- and I know it is necessary to be prepared to the best of my ability to deal with whatever comes, both emotionally and financially. Of course, once a mare successfully carries and foals a healthy foal and it is raised through weaning, its still really only the beginning-- there are continuing health expenses, registration expenses, futurity and show nominations and costs, time spent socializing, training, etc......

For me it is worth it to continue-- to strive to choose breeding stock and make pairings that will better my breed-- registered Appaloosa foals with looks, movement, size, and color from proven bloodlines--- and I am in it for the "long haul"---

But for someone who wants to raise and/or train their own, it truly is cheaper and less risky, in almost all cases, to find a youngster already on the ground that already has all the "stuff" you are looking for, and buy it.

So this thread was such a good idea and I am learning so much. I have never bread any of my horses but have been close to two of breading- both ended with great stories:
1. I was about 13 and they bread the BO fav mare to this amazing stallion- everything went well and the baby was perfect. It was a little stressful because the baby was big but in the end all went well. I didn't do much with the baby other then admire him since I was so young
2. My best friend bread her palomino mare (APHA/AQHA) to a APHA stallion and they had a great pregnancy- baby was born healthy (mare had 2 babies before and she was a good mom) and was great to her baby. The filly was handled daily and she was very respectful at the beg... she started to get an attitude and they didn't know what to do b/c she was just nasty- they got a pony and put the two of them together to keep each other company- little did they know the pony would teach the filly how to be a nice well mannered girl :) She was the EASIEST horse to break ever and man did she like the word "whoa"- she had a nice cute trot, slow lope and willing to learn.
Like I said I haven't been around many but the two I have been closely related two were good experiences. I don't know if I will ever bread any of my horses (I sure can't afford it right now) but keep the stories coming- I am learning all kinds!

Wow guys, you've completely out done my expectations! That is some hard luck, and I am deeply sympethetic to your losses.

To be honest, a huge part of the reason I decided against breeding my mare was due to thoughts of birth complication. I know that more horses birth normally then abnormally, but she's my entire life, my pet and my friend. As much as I'd love a foal from her to love on when she's gone, I don't think I could live with myself if something went wrong and I lost her.

Good stories, thank you very kindly for the in depth explanations, I actually learned quite a bit, it's amazing how many things can go wrong But I'm glad you have your blessed youngsters to remind you of how amazing it is when things go right!

I always ask someone thinking of breeding their mare, are you prepared to put her life at risk? Because everytime you breed, that is what you are doing. You need to realize that and be ok with it. You SHOULD think it over. None of us want anything to happen to our mares, but it IS a risk we take.

Something else I forgot to say in my earlier post, I usually direct people to www.marestare.com and click on the calendar. Look at the previous months. This is all the births that happen on marestare alone. Realize, with marestare, the mares are online for the whole world to view. It is not just the owner hoping to catch their mare foaling. It is usually 24/7 watch on the mares, people all over, and they call the owner if the mare is foaling. These mares DO have assistance at foaling, have people able to help correct dystocias and call vets when needed. Not mares left out to foal on their own. Anyhow, everytime you see the rainbow with the angel, that is a mare and/or foal that died. Notice how many their are. That is a reality. Sad, but life. You can also go to the message board, foaling alerts and updates, and then go to the nursery section. All the posts that say "angel" in the title (well, most, as some mares are NAMED Angel lol), you can read about what happened. Have tissues ready!

I'd like to pose another question to all you breeders out there:

Do you think the number of foal/mare casualties has risen in recent years? Much like the instances of colic/injury? Giving birth is a pretty natural thing, and I know in decades of breeding Arabs my great-grandpa, grandpa and great uncles never spoke of issues. Do you think the more we do things "unnaturally" the more we're putting mares at risk? Just in the sense of being kept in stalls and eating a human created diet for example.

And I really want honest opinions here, this isn't meant to attack any breeders, I realize that in this day and age it simply isn't possible to let horses just "roam the open range" anymore, the urban sprawl is quickly devouring what was left of that and we're forced to start raising in horses in more unnatural circumstances, and I know most people do everything they can to make their horses as healthy as possible. I'm just curious if any older breeders have noticed a change?

I just think it's another big prepotent to people NEEDING to know what they're doing. A lot of people use the arguement much like they do with a farrier - well, wild horses don't need a farrier, so why should I trim? Well, wild horses birth, so why should I worry?

So has anyone noticed an increase in risk as we progress further into life?

Last year my trainer had a healthy mini colt, born healthy all that jazz. I loved that little guy, he was my favorite of all the ones she had bred. Just before weaning time he got an infection. I don't know all the details, but I know that the infection is rare, and only like 2% that get it die. He died.

Same year a filly was born healthy and shortly after acquired an ulcer in her eye. It was fixed but she went blind in that eye, and almost had to have it removed.

Not sure on the vet costs on the two of them, but I know it wasn't cheap.

Babies can come out with no problems but you are not in the clear by any means.

I have never personally bred a horse, but I do know of two unfortunate losses.

Palomino MFT Mare, in foal to Blk/Wht MFT Stud. Same sire as my two MFT's.
Aborted (not sure exactly when) later in pregnancy. Foal was a beautiful Palomino filly with a blaze and four socks. Mare is an experienced mother, very healthy, with all the proper vet care.
When bred to Dusty (the stud mentioned above) she always produced Palomino's. They have another one of her fillies, she's about three now, broke to ride, and they intend on showing her. She's a bit of a snotty girl, but boy does she have the longest mane I've ever seen on a Foxtrotter O_O'

Mahogany Bay TWH mare bred to a TWH stud, some sort of Homozygous testing.
Produced a healthy Tobiano tri-color colt, very well bred with an incredible gait. Future show and possibly even stud prospect. Ate the tail of his dam and another mare, colicked and didn't survive.
The stud was sold to someone overseas so they couldn't breed back again. I knew the colt personally, he was really a ham. Loved to show off, yet still be with the people.


Breeding can be both an adventure and a tragedy.

I understand the point of this thread but I'm not sure how effective, or morally sound the principle is.

Very true there's way too many unusable and unwanted horses in the world. But GOOD horses come from GOOD breeding programs. And ocassionally GOOD horses even come from BAD breeding programs.

Terrifying people with the horror stories of all the "births gone wrong" is beyond my comprehension. Why are you doing this? We've bred and raised a lot of high quality youngsters over the years - ALL but 2 we kept and raised ourselves and still own to this day. We only had one incident, where a leg was back and the vet had to straighten the leg out. It turned out fine.

I think the more appropriate approach might be in educating people what good breeding stock is, how to secure such horses, and how to carefully and thoughtfully select breedings that will produce highly valued and usable babies.

I could talk all day about horror stories of car accidents, murders, natural deaths, and so forth, but why? Why not rather educate people on safe driving habits, personal safety and health, etc.?

You cannot be obsessed with the negative and think it will prove your point or justify your cause. I think you have to look at things objectively and approach the issue from an education standpoint, and not one of fear and horror.

And yes it is VERY expensive to raise a baby from birth, but it's also VERY expensive to buy a horse and provide for its continued care as well. All in all, we've come out about the same - breeding a mare and raising a baby - versus buying a well started greenie with good bloodlines. You can pay $10,000 for such a horse, or you can pay 10,000 to raise or own. Or a lot less.

My current riding horse is one I raised from a weanling (bought her at weaning.) And yeah, it's been expensive, but no more so than buying a 6 year old that is already competing. To buy that mare now would be an EASY $10,000. By raising her, I've done all her training myself, I have an extremely tight bond with her, and she's had no bad experiences or train wrecks that I have to overcome.

Just my thoughts.

The methods you've pointed out have been used til the cows come home. All we're doing is giving people more to think about. Your point is valid, but so is this topic, IMO. It can just as readily be used towards general horse ownership as well. Too many people think a horse is just a big dog and can take care of itself. I find this helpful in giving not only novices, but even experienced breeders some ideas of what they CAN expect. It can help educate them if their horses are showing some signs of what's been written.

Nobody is trying to be negative about breeding, we're being realistic.

Agreed.
Sticking your head in the sand (not said to anyone in particular) and saying "oh, it won't/cant happen to me" is foolish. I think this topic is a really good reminder that things can and do go wrong, and there are risks to breeding any mare.