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Breeding My Arabian This Spring?

14K views 71 replies 29 participants last post by  KigerQueen 
#1 ·
I have always wanted to breed my horse, to watch and learn as her pregnancy progresses and later train the foal as it grows from baby to yearling to 3-year old and onward. It's always been my dream.

And now it looks like it's going to happen. :) Destiny is 8 years old, and she has allergies. We changed her feed because she was allergic to it, and she stopped coughing for a while, but it started up again as fall came. So we think she must have some sort of seasonal allergies, and her former owner agreed that she seems to. We believe this may cut her time as a riding horse short, and it would be best to breed her young for the first time, at least.

Yes, I understand it would cheaper to buy a foal from someone else than to breed one. Yes, I know there are a lot of horses that can't find homes, and it would be better (and cheaper) to buy one of these. But this is for sentimental reasons; I want to carry on Destiny's line, and I want to always have a part of her with me. I plan on keeping her foal, and Destiny is a purebred Arabian with good bloodlines. :P

My plan is to breed her to a homozygous tobiano Paint stallion, ensuring a tobiano foal. Not only do I love the color, but I love the Paint's quiet temperament, and I'm hoping the foal will take that kind of temperament because I'm hoping to train it myself and I'm not going to be the first one on the back of a spooky horse. I'm not quite that confident as a rider yet, lol. I've never trained one myself before. :P

I've found a couple of stallions that I like. One (bay tobiano) is a bit stockier, but he has more white on him (which I like, but in researching this it appears that this does not necessarily mean the foal will have more white). If both he and Destiny are red carriers (Ee), the foal could be chestnut tobiano (my favourite, but since Destiny is bay there will be little chance of that anyway). In order of most probable to least probable (assuming both horses are red carriers), the foal could be bay tobiano, black tobiano, or chestnut tobiano.

The second is a grullo tobiano. He is Ee (red carrier) and Dd (has the dun gene--50% chance of producing some type of dun tobiano). If Destiny is also a red carrier (she's never been genetically tested, as far as I know), they could produce a foal of the following colours, from most probable to least probable: bay tobiano, bay dun tobiano, black tobiano, grullo (black dun) tobiano, chestnut tobiano, or red dun tobiano.

So, anyway, I'm excited! I was considering posting this in the Horse Genetics forum, but I'm also talking about breeding just in general, so I decided to just post it here...I really hope this works out! :)
 
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#33 ·
I would post her pedigree thats a great offer and would possibly give you guidance on an arabian stud that would compliment your mare.

For what its worth, I don't think you should breed your mare. Foals are cute for about 3 months than they become a ton of work. The other issue is that getting a mare in foal is expensive. You take the stud fee, plus boarding the mare (this increases if AI is used) plus ultrasounds, plus vaccines, plus IGG testing once the foal is on the ground. The fact that your mare while nice is nothing steller is another reason but not the main reason that I think you should not breed.

You are probably in your mid teens. Life with change drastically in the next ten years for you. It is just not a good time in your life to have a foal. I have seen this more times than I can count. Where someone gets a mare in foal when they the owner are 16 years old. The horse turns three and the owner is 19. At which point, the owner has one of the following things that prevent them from working with the foal, boyfriend, college, job, lack of time etc. You are entering what will hopefully be some great years of your life (college) and you will also be fantastically poor in most cases. Affording one horse much less two will be a challenge. I don't say this to be mean, I say this because I can think of five people I knew in high school who bred a mare, life got complicated and the foal suffered for it.
 
#35 ·
I thought she looked familiar.....I told you I knew one of her ancestors personally, when he came to Germany. He died of heaves, btw.
DSLD is a weakness in the suspensory ligaments, ending in completely dropped fetlocks. She seems mighty straight in the hocks and her fetlocks are quite low already. A pregnancy puts strain on her legs, she carries that weight around 24/7, when ridden, she has relief when you dismount.

I don't want to be negative, but I seriously think you'd be better off getting a foal already on the ground, where you can, as I said, color, conformation, character. Get her allergies taken care of, and enjoy her as long as possible.
 
#36 ·
The mare is cute. I do not see her as a broodmare. Personally I think the neck is coarse and bred to a Paint that is not likely to be refined. The value tossed around of the possible foal is way out of line as I see it. But the allergy issues are more of a consideration as far as breeding. I would not breed a mare with problems that very likely could be passed on to a foal.
I think our concerns are not going to be heeded, I am sorry to say. It's her decision. The responses given come from years of experience and most likely decisions some wish we hadn't made.
Even breeding the best mare you can to the best stallion you can afford has a fair amount of risk.
OP, think this through very carefully.
 
#39 ·
I own two mature stallions and one prospect.
Judging from those pictures I would not consider your mare for either of my stallions. Those pictures may not be the best and I would want to see her in person but her hind legs as pointed out are not something I would want to pass on to a foal.
People have given you things to consider and all are valid.
Most of all both you and that mare have time to realize your dream. No need to rush things.
Good luck what ever you decide. Shalom
 
#41 ·
Golden horse I see your point but the question was already asked and the OP answered it. After that it seems to me the only reason to raise the question again is to scare the OP into changing her mind.
That isnt going to happen. If the OP changes her mind about breeding it wont be because someone tried to scare her into it.
The other reasons given in other post were more realistic might change her mind. Those members Not trying to emotionally blackmail her will be more successful .
IMPO the post I highlighted was guilty as charged. Tryng to lay a guilt trip on someone or project your fears unto them is wrong. Plain and simple.
Yes I agree if you only have one mare and are that attached to her that you would worry endlessly for 11+ months then breeding is not for you.
Why stress yourself that much for that long. Its not good mentally or physically.
The OP is young and yes inexpeirnced . She however is not stupid. Shalom
 
#42 ·
DB, teens, not the OP per se, may not be stupid, but they lack the experience nto have a mature perspective. I often ask my daughter, "Are you sure?" when she makes some huge comment.....and try to give her the other "what ifs" that may affect the situation. Oftentimes, younger people can't put themselves there, in those hypothetical shoes.

However. ..OP is not any of our kids. If she doesn't choose to consider DEEPLY her decision, or put any thought into WHY so many people are saying this may be a bad idea....then we should just move on. There is no inherent abuse here, and sadly the worst that can happen to the involved human life is a life lesson.
 
#47 ·
I would like to explain why I describe the issues with foaling. We have some family friends who take great care of their horses but have had some bad luck. They have had foals with contracted tendons, map-positioning issues, foals with seizures and mares that colic after foaling. These are difficult things to watch and while it is rare it is devastating to see. Dbarabians you are very lucky to have been breeding as long as you have with so few issues. You also with all due respect have a farmers mentality with respect to horses that many people do not have. This is a good thing when you are in the breeding business. You regard your horses as horses and not as pets or best friends. That is not a sentiment that is shared by everyone who breeds a horse.

I know that foaling issues are rare but when they happen they are bad. I think a portion of the people I see in the world regard difficulties in equine pregnancy the same way they regard difficulties in human pregnancy. There are children born at 6 months gestation who are living. We don't have the same chances with pre-term equines. The other thing is that these complications while rare are often expensive, which is something that owners sometimes forget in the excitement of having a foal.

I am sorry for sort of hijacking that but I wanted to explain why I tend to be the one jumping on the "bad things happen when you breed" bandwagon.
 
#48 ·
OP, you will end up doing whatever you want to do in this situation no matter what people say to you. I hope you think about why so many people are dead-set against the idea of breeding your mare. Really think about it.

It seems like all you want to see is the fun of having a baby, so in your mind everyone else must be wrong and not understand.
 
#49 ·
rookie there is no need to explain yourself to me.
I have said this before if you only have one horse you need to consider how losing one will affect you. Emotionally and financially.
What works for me may not work for you.
No one should take the responsibility to breed good quality foals lightly.
I did not post about the question the first time it was brought up in this conversation. It was a valid question that needed to be considered.
After the OP answered the first question. Intelligently and in detail why bring it up again? That was my point.
Never apologize for having an opinion. rookie, golden horse, and elirose all of you are passionate about horses and concerned for their well being. That is a good thing and I applaud it. Shalom
 
#51 ·
db- Thank you! :) I appreciate what you've said.

demonwolf- I believe I am quite good at putting myself in "hypothetical shoes." I'm not saying I can completely go there, but I can understand what it would be like, to an extent...but I get what you're saying. :P You can only go so far as to hypothetical situations -- and in reality, it's usually different.

EliRose- no, you didn't offend me. :)

CandyCanes- I will be sure that read that, soon (just not now because I have to go, lol)

TessaMay- "It seems like all you want to see is the fun of having a baby, so in your mind everyone else must be wrong and not understand." I don't know if this is meant to be derogatory or not, but I just want to know that is not what I think. I understand what everybody is trying to say, and I know you all aren't wrong. I believe some of the points brought up may not be relevant or matter in my case (SOME, not all), but I don't disregard them completely, even if it sounds like it.

To all- I will be speaking to a vet about this before I make a decision. I appreciate the criticism, because it honestly will help (even if some of it is completely irrelevant -- I understand that I only have one horse, but Destiny has as good a chance at having no complications as any other horse, and a fear of losing her, as sad as it may be, would not change my mind). And just for the record, nobody is offending me for any reason whatsoever. I don't scare easily, and it's even harder to offend me. ;)
 
#53 ·
To all- I will be speaking to a vet about this before I make a decision. I appreciate the criticism, because it honestly will help (even if some of it is completely irrelevant -- I understand that I only have one horse, but Destiny has as good a chance at having no complications as any other horse, and a fear of losing her, as sad as it may be, would not change my mind). And just for the record, nobody is offending me for any reason whatsoever. I don't scare easily, and it's even harder to offend me. ;)
Thank you for at least reading and thinking about what is being said, and for not starting flouncing when people are less than positive, a very mature attitude on life.
 
#52 ·
What I don't understand is why you would consider breeding a mare with a condition that is more than likely genetic and getting a foal that will have a considerably shorter life span. That doesn't make sense to me, and even if that's a small chance, it would be too much of a chance for me to call a responsible decision.
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#56 ·
Golden Horse and db- thank you! :3

DeliciousD- my horse isn't worth $20k; I've been told her foals would be (untrained) because of her pedigree and her sire's performance record. This was also before we found out she had allergies, I forgot to mention that part before.
And you're close, I want to breed her to a QH or Paint because I'm hoping the foal inherits a calm, laid-back attitude (and I like stocky horses...) and colour is just a bonus for Paints. :P
 
#57 ·
We have a 2YO Arabian whose sire, dam, and maternal sister are all National Champions in performance. So it's safe to say he's a pretty high quality prospect and we thought we could sell him as a youngster and make lots of money. We asked a BNT what he was worth and she said we couldn't ask any more than $10,000 until he's under saddle and proves he has some talent.

The market for Arabian prospects isn't good right now. The only young Arabians that would possibly sell for $20,000+ now are the freakishly typy halter babies that are very rare even when you're breeding two very high quality Arabians together. Last year on an online auction I bought a nice young Arab/Saddlebred cross whose sire is a National Champion with a $4,500 stud fee. I bought him for $300.

So it's a pretty tough time to be breeding even the best Arabians unless you're willing to be in it for the long haul and wait until the foal is under saddle and really showing talent in something. I would also hesitate to breed a mare that may pass on her health issue.
 
#58 ·
I own a broodmare that also has allergy from dust. She has had 5 foals, none of them has any respiratory issues - oldest of them is now 9 years old. As I don`t doubt that there may be cases when this kind of allergy MAY be passed on, I think that that possibility is way lower that 50% as someone mentioned earlier. I know lots of mares that has allergies while their offsprings doesn`t.
Speaking of mare with respiratory issues while being pregnant - in my case, Smaile`s breathing was even better while being pregnant and about a week before and after foaling, she breathed as a completely healthy horse. She also has never had any complications in foaling.
With this I wanted to say that allergy is not what should stop you from breeding a mare, unless your vet has confirmed that this can and will be passed on a foal.
 
#59 ·
tranquilo- yeah, okay. XD Personally, I wouldn't put a price on her foals anyway, because my full intention is to keep the foal. If I happened to breed her a second time to another purebred Arabian (because I'd love to do that and carry on the purebred Arabian in her), I'd be keeping that foal too, IF I did that (but if I did, it would be at least a few years in the future). The prices of horses are down a lot right now anyway...it's hard enough to GIVE a horse away. I wouldn't be breeding if I was going to sell. :P

smaile- Thank you for the input! I'm hoping Destiny will be one of those cases! XD
 
#60 ·
Oh, and SunnyDraco- I never mentioned anything earlier, but I'm going to now. XD Thank you, about the genetics...that she's Ee and Aa. I never thought about figuring it out for myself before... for some reason, I never considered taking her parents' colours into consideration. XD (Then again, I only found out her dam's colour a couple of weeks ago -- I put it on AllBreed myself.)

But anyway, I looked at the possibilities myself and saw that you're right -- she's Ee and Aa. That's cool, that we could figure it out without actually having her tested. Now I've been explaining it to people and everyone I know is now utterly confused, lol. Gotta love genetics. XD
 
#61 ·
OP...I think it a nice thing to think of breeding a mare with the plan of keeping the foal for all of its days. It's not very realistic, however. Maybe you have independent financial means and know there will never be issues in your life that will cause a change of situation. But, for most of us, life can be full of surprises, and can take a turn we didn't expect.
When you breed a mare, you want the result to be something that someone else would want should you ever have to find it another home.
Good luck.
 
#62 ·
When you breed a mare, you want the result to be something that someone else would want should you ever have to find it another home.
Agree with this 100%. I bred my arab mare. She is registered, with a decent pedigree, very good conformation over all, extremely healthy and the best saddle horse I've ever owned. She is bred to a thoroughbred stallion who's disposition and breeding are excellent, conformation is very good and has a decent record on the track. I chose this cross because 1) its a popular cross for various English disciplines, 2)its a cross well suited to endurance racing, which I enjoy, 3) the mare and stallion complement each other very well, where he is not ideal, she is strong, and vice versa, and 4) its not terribly common around here, and I know there is a market for it. I want to keep this foal, but life happens, and I really have no idea what the future holds. The most responsible thing I can do as a breeder is to breed something as desirable as possible, to help ensure its future.

I will also say, Despite the positives of the situation, I very nearly did not breed her, for various reasons.

If you breed your mare, I highly recommend saving, and breeding to the best possible stallion you can afford, ideally with color(such as dun factor and/or a dilute) as well as a nice pattern, and a show record, with of course the essential great conformation, disposition and breeding. You are going to find a colored, paint pattered half arab with a recognizable sire much more marketable.
 
#63 ·
I would also like to point out that you could breed for a purebred Arabian and get a stocky build and a laid back attitude. That isn't a quarter horse or stock horse only trait, even stock bred horses can be as fruity as the fruitest Arabian out there. My mom's purebred Arabian stallion is mistaken as a quarter horse because he is laid back and has a thicker build. My mom and 2 sisters took 3 of his foals (2 weanlings and a yearling) to a parrelli open house last weekend. They got lots of compliments on how beautiful their horses were, and many asked if they were quarter horses... These babies lead around with a loose lead and kept their shoulder with the handler, couldn't wait to explore all the objects and obstacles, wanted to touch and smell everything, couldn't care less about the carrot sticks touching them all over. They were better parelli students than many of the adults horses in the open house. Selective breeding in both sire and dam make the difference in the foal's outcome, which makes more difference than the actual breed.
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#65 ·
Dustbunny- I agree with that! And I am hoping that there will be a market for this foal that I am hoping for. The stallion I'm interested in is a grullo homozygous tobiano -- he's heterozygous dun, so he has a 50% chance of producing some kind of dun (either grullo, bay dun, or red dun). I think he has some kind of show record, and pretty good breeding too. And he's quiet, very quiet. My fingers are crossed, anyway!

Very true, SunnyDraco. Destiny isn't exactly the most Arabian-y Arabian. I've had people ask me if she was a Quarter Horse, too! She has her Arabian moments (like when she sees something that interests her), but when she's just standing or grazing, she looks almost like a Quarter Horse (in my opinion).

And, well, any horse could be quiet, I agree, especially with the right handling. But I've heard that Arab/Paint crosses tend to be very laid-back and quiet. There are people breeding Pintabians (which apparently have to be at least 90-something percent Arabian), and they classify the horses as being at the low end of a scale of temperament -- that is, exceptionally quiet and good-natured. That makes me very interested in this type of cross.

Not to say I think it's a bad idea to breed Arabian to Arabian. I don't. I think it would be cool. :) But Paint is my first choice. :P
 
#67 ·
And, well, any horse could be quiet, I agree, especially with the right handling. But I've heard that Arab/Paint crosses tend to be very laid-back and quiet. There are people breeding Pintabians (which apparently have to be at least 90-something percent Arabian), and they classify the horses as being at the low end of a scale of temperament -- that is, exceptionally quiet and good-natured. That makes me very interested in this type of cross.

Not to say I think it's a bad idea to breed Arabian to Arabian. I don't. I think it would be cool. :) But Paint is my first choice. :P
Pintabians (99.8% Arabian) tend to be an Arabian/saddlebred cross due to the similarities in the breeds which makes a nice cross that keeps closer to Arabian type. I grew up with 5 quarter horse/Arabian crosses, all sired by the same mellow and well put together quarter horse stallion. 4 turned out very beautiful in looks, 1 turned out very poorly put together due to getting all her dam's conformational faults and making them worse. 1 of the beautiful fillies had a nasty attitude from the day she was born, her full brother was a polar opposite from the day he was born. The other beautiful filly had some issues that took time to work through but you still could not tie her up, her full brother really turned heads but was a stallion in the brain from the moment of birth and gelding him at 6 months didn't stop studdish behavior with mares. You just never know what you are going to get when you breed, especially when you cross breed.

My mom's current boss mare is a registered half Arabian black tobiano. Her sire was a registered black tobiano paint, her dam was a registered bay Arabian. We did not breed her, so we do not know what her parents were like in personality. Her previous owner sent her to trainers frequently because the mare was pushy and disrespectful and the previous owner was not horse smart about being alpha and wanted to be a best friend and let her horses push her around in the pasture. After a few months of daily work, the mare became a good citizen but still has her moments.
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#66 ·
Hmm even though your reasoning for breeding her now has to do with her age.. you also need to be selfish with this decision. What is this going to demand from your time?

By breeding her now and taking on that responsibility of extra care through the pregnancy, then more years into the future with training this baby you are going to be sacrificing a lot of your own life. Many of the previous posters have mentioned how you aren't in college yet and should reconsider this decision for that reason because they have gone through it and we are speaking from experience here- college is exactly like a full time job in how much time you'll be spending studying for classes. A 40+ hour per week job.

It's the little things that will add up. Have a big midterm the next day: to study or fit in a training session with the foal? And with multiple classes, all of those quizzes and projects and exams will fall all over the place on your schedule, so you will always have at least one thing to be working on.

I know for many of us here on HF (OP included) our horses are a huge part of our lives, but they come with a hefty price tag, and so does college. Add everything up and something has to give. It would be unfair to yourself and your new foal to try and take on so much at one time.

You have plenty of life left to live, and the dreams that you mentioned could be completed later on in life and I think you'd find that waiting would make it all the more worthwhile, for your sake and your horses.
 
#68 ·
Foals have short attentions spans and should not be worked longer than 20-30 minutes.
None of mine are handled besides being petted and rubbed all over until they are 6 months old. Then we start halter breaking them but only handle them once or twice a week except for shots and trimmings until they are nearly 2 years of age. By that time they have good ground manners and respect humans. From 2-3 we start short training session to prepare them for being trained to saddle.
Most large ranches follow this same routine. Some do not handle the yearlings at all after halter breaking them.
Foals and their training do not have to take up a lot of personal time. The OP can spend as much time as she needs to suit her schedule and need.
OP college demands a lot of time add social activities and your time to work with any of your horses will at times be minimal.
College is stressful enough add a mare an foal into the equation and it might be more than some people can handle. Shalom
 
#69 ·
Im a first year collage student and im only taking 2 core classes and 2 "fluff" classes. I went from seeing my mare every day to maybe 2 times a week. I dont hang out with friends or 'party' or have much of a social life (My horse and this site are my social life). Its just school, school, school. Im stressing to the point about bills and school that im losing my hair (2x the normal amount when brushing). Im having frequent panic attacks and I have been getting on average 4 hours of sleep scene August. I dont even have a job this semester, 1 i cant find one and 2 i dont have the time. Do you REALLY think you could deal with a preg mare AND school? My mare is accident prone as it is and just the though of breeding her makes me ill. The Vet bills, the constant worrying and tweaking to their diets. I could not handle it. Im 21, I VARY vividly remember being your age. Take everyone advice and don't do it. Wait until you are in collage first. Congress just Oked horse slaughter (or are just about to). So what will happen to this foal if you suddenly cannot keep it? There are on average 60,000 Arabians, 60,000 quarter horses and almost 100,000 tbs (Dont quote me on this but its somewhere in that ball park) born in the us a year! Your foal would have to be able to me more desirable than the rest of the futures foals out there. And it takes more than breeding for that. It takes a show record, conformations health and lord knows what else. There are thousands of unwanted horses out there, Bringing another into the world with an uncertain situation is not fair to the foal.
 
#70 ·
SunnyDraco- oh, that's weird...where I heard about Pintabians, it said 92-something (somewhere around there anyway) percent Arabian and the rest Paint. But anyway, the technical definitions aren't important; my point is that most people who own Paint/Arabian crosses say they seem to be (on average) very laid-back. :P

Oh, and the stallion I'm looking at is 4 years old this year, so he doesn't have much of a show record, but he has been shown a bit and they're planning on showing him more this year, I think. His sire is A Tru Rolex.
 
#71 ·
http://www.pintabianregistry.com/registration.cfm
Over 99% Arabian and less than 100% Arabian to be pintabian registered. They bred for color pattern (tobiano) which is found in many breeds and bred to keep as close to the Arabian type as possible. Saddlebreds are common crosses to Arabians, they also can carry the tobiano pattern. You may hear that Pintabians are very quiet, but others may say the complete opposite. Each horse is an individual and may or may not follow expectations you hear about. Many people have prejudices about various breeds and/or genders, this could be based on experience or stories they have heard.

I think you missed the part when I mentioned my mom's boss mare who is sired by an APHA stallion and out of an AHA mare. She is beautiful in conformation, build and movement. She is not laid back unless she is in a standing heat and near a stallion (she will practically fall asleep for a stallion) or everything in her world is absolutely perfect, which is not when part of her herd is taken out of sight and many other little things. Her own foals have been so much better and laid back, and it wasn't from having paint bloodlines, it was from selecting a stallion (purebred Arabian) with a solid brain and laid back personality.

Crosses vary greatly, you can never determine the confirmation and build. The very experienced cross breeders are successful because they know what works and what doesn't. Taking every fault into consideration when choosing mare and stallion. I had mentioned the 5 very different foals we got from the same Quarter horse stallion, none of them had the same build or temperament. They are individuals, even the full siblings were built differently. A sister was short, wide, laid back, built like a stocky quarter horse, the brother was taller, sleeker, high energy, spooky, and carried himself like an excited Arabian.

You will show more maturity if you show patience and restraint, especially when you want to breed. You are young, your mare is young. There is no rush, do not get pressured into breeding by a friend that thinks it would be fun to have foals at the same time. Your friend won't be finacially responsible for your mare. Ever read the horse classified section near the end of summer/beginning of fall? Lots of horses hit the market because their owner is going to college and their family isn't going to keep them.
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