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breeding outcome

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    07-11-2012, 10:31 PM
  #1
Green Broke
breeding outcome

Breeding and outcome question here, going off 10th grade biology and guinnie pigs here.

SO a half arab/ ASB, is crossed with a half arab/ASB, lets say they have lots of offspring.

Trait wise and what the horse looks like would you end up with 4 basic mixes ?

Or would you have 25% Arabians, 25% ASB, and 50% half and half ?

Basically if you cross 2 half arabians could you end up with a horse that basically has zero arabian characteristics ?
     
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    07-11-2012, 10:34 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Arabian traits seem to be dominant a lot of the time. It is hard to pull a gait through a part-blood.
     
    07-12-2012, 04:19 PM
  #3
Trained
This is where cross breeding becomes a problem.

First you could get the best of both breed in the first generation and the worst of both breeds in the next generation. There is no way to know what you will get. It takes about 8-10 generation of good consistent breeding to set a pheno type. This is breeding like horses togeter from each cross to the next generation and culling ALL that do not meet that standard.
     
    07-12-2012, 07:54 PM
  #4
Trained
It would just depend on what traits were dominant, what traits were recessive, and what traits were more complex than simple dominant and recessive.

If a homozygous black horse was bred to a homozygous something else horse (say chestnut), the first offspring would all be black. Only in the second cross (hybrid to hybrid) would you get the recessive trait coming out. Then you would have a 3:1 phenotypic ration and a 1:2:1 genotypic ratio.

The first generation would likely be very different from the second. Stuff like the running walk gait may be recessive, or it may involve a lot of different genes. There is a researcher at Cornell that is working on identifying the specific gene right now. I have her email address somewhere. If you want it, PM me.

Cross breeding two purebred animals may result in consistent results. It used to be very typical to breed a black angus cow to a hereford bull (or visa-versa) and you would consistently get a black cow with a white face.

As the cross breeding went past several generations, it all got mixed up.

The National Show Horse is a pretty common breed or actually cross. The Saddlebred and Arab tend to mix up nicely and you often get the Arab style and movement with the Saddlebred size.

I read a post earlier about someone trying to cross Arabs with drafts and getting the Arab size and the draft head. Not good for the home team..........
     
    07-22-2012, 04:42 PM
  #5
Green Broke
More I look the more I am likeing the NSH line. Usually the pedigrees are available in the listings. One side is usually pure Arabian, and the other seems to be saddlebred and saddlebred/ arabian. Of interest is a breeder in NC that is using a Bask stallion. Her NSH horses seem to be a bit stockier than the ones I see around eastern VA, I am looking up bloodlines and starting to recognize lines. Friends are advising me on a Arabian cross for disposition, I would also like to increase the size a bit. But if I am getting a cross I would like a cross with a breed that is decent at endurance. QH/arab crosses are common but QH's are not geed endurance horses. So kinda zeroing in on NSH, or Morgan. I would think TB would have similar shortcomings as the QH.
     
    07-22-2012, 06:02 PM
  #6
Trained
I actually almost bought a NSH before I bought this horse. She was really tall. She was not as stocky as my Arab, but my Arab is really stocky as Arab's go. Can you put the word Arab into a sentence 3 times?
     
    07-25-2012, 03:35 AM
  #7
Yearling
If you want to get really advanced, you could make Punnet squares representing the different traits being bred for. For example, say you make a punnet square diagram to breed for blue eyes in a horse. You would need to figure out first what the dominant trait is of each parent, and then you would actually be able to get a diagram and then a percentage of a possibility of blue eyes. As goes with body traits, you could make punnet square diagrams to figure it out. This also ties in with an experiment done by a monk quite some time ago. He cross-fertilized different plants to figure out what would happen. He was Gregor Mendel and is basically the man that gave the basis for all of our knowledge on crossing things.

I won't give you a complete science lesson but if you want a basic on what he did click here >Gregor Mendel's Genetics Discoveries with Peas -- Exploring Nature Educational Resource

Now here is more on Punnett squares, and the rules of inheritance > Basic Principles of Genetics: Probability of Inheritance

I do apologize if I got complicated, but this kind of stuff is fascinating to me. I do hope it answers your question
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    07-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #8
Trained
Very good Cowgirl. Go to the front of the class.
The only issue with this is that there is still a lot of stuff that is not understood about horse genetics. Some stuff is not simple dominant/recessive.
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    07-25-2012, 10:31 PM
  #9
Trained
JOE, if your looking for endurance mounts why not a pure
Arab? They come in lots of sizes and builds.
For endurance it seems that under 15 Hands is the norm.
I think that the NSH would have a lot of unnecessary movement in their gaits. Plus it being a cross of two hot bloods its temperament would be the same as a pure arab.
That's my guess anyway.
Why not an anglo arab?
There are a few in endurance and doing well. Shalom
EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
     
    07-25-2012, 11:04 PM
  #10
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
JOE, if your looking for endurance mounts why not a pure
Arab? They come in lots of sizes and builds.
For endurance it seems that under 15 Hands is the norm.
I think that the NSH would have a lot of unnecessary movement in their gaits. Plus it being a cross of two hot bloods its temperament would be the same as a pure arab.
That's my guess anyway.
Why not an anglo arab?
There are a few in endurance and doing well. Shalom
I have known a few NSHs, from the same barn, so there is a bias. They were gorgeous, wide-eyed, stringy animals that were usually high headed and "wiggly". I rode one, named BEN, I loved that gelding. I could definitely see him being an endurance horse - IF of course you took out the fact he was afraid of anything and everything LOL. I always saw the whites of his eyes.
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