Breeding Quality - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 06-20-2011, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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Breeding Quality

First off I'm not a breeder, nor do I have any experiance with breeding, but I have ventured to and from the breeding section a bit and have read quite a bit and instead of side tracking another thread I though I would make another one to learn.

So here goes.

Every thread I read that people want to know if their stally is stally worthy, everyone says no.
I read responses and it's generally all the same answer, he's okay but not amazing, would make a better gelding and so on.

My question is, well sort of question, not everyone want high performance horses, so therefore all studs shouldn't be high performance horses then... so whats wrong with breeding an average stally to an average mare to get an average foal?

I know this will probably attract a lot of attention, but don't bash me, this is a place to learn and I am genuilly interested. Although I would probably never take up breeding.
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post #2 of 26 Old 06-20-2011, 11:09 PM
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the people that write that stuff just are not very in touch with reality.

there is nothing wrong with breeding if you can afford to take care of mare and foal.

not everything that reproduces needs to be perfect. this is not nazi Germany, and no NOT EVERYONE WANTS THE STEREOTYPICAL STANDARD OF AND AMAZING HORSE.

if humans were as harsh with their own breeding as we pretend to be on forums with horses, i'd bet half of your parents would be sterile and 3/4 of you wouldn't exist.

Here is my direct opinion on breeding, no matter what you plan on involuntarily impregnating with what TO HIS THEIR OWN.
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-20-2011, 11:28 PM
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If humans were as harsh with their own breeding as we pretend to be on forums with horses, i'd bet half of your parents would be sterile and 3/4 of you wouldn't exist.
Considering how overpopulated this planet is, that probably wouldn't be such a bad thing.

But back on topic, there are already a lot of average horses out there to choose from, at this point it doesn't really make sense to purposely produce more. Just take your pick from what's already here.
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-20-2011, 11:48 PM
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Most people say things like that because they believe that if any one breeds horses, they have to be top of the line show horses with thousands of dollars in winnings with a big expensive trainer and at a big fancey training barn and all that sha bang, which makes since for people wanting a show horse.

But IMO, I believe that if someone wants to breed "average" horses, for a good reason (not because they want their mares to "experience the miracle of birth" or to create pretty colors) then what's wrong with that? What's wrong with a little ma and pa farm? As long as the horses are in great condition, feed properly, papered and have no serious confromational or genetic issues. Yeah, they may not rake in $20,000 when they go to sell them, but not everyone wants a big fancey show horse. Most of the population are pet horses, lesure horses or weekend trail ridding horses. Most people will argue this and say "If some one wants a horse just for ridding on trails, then they should get an older horse that is already broke" But really, all those older, already broke horses were foals once too, and once all those older broke horses are gone, what's left?

I will admit I see a lot of unnessicary breeding going on. Lot's of over breeding of horses that shouldn't be bred for many reasons. Like breeding soley for a certain color and disregarding more important things like breed, papers and overall quality of the horse.

Last edited by crimson88; 06-20-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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post #5 of 26 Old 06-21-2011, 12:11 AM
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The problem with breeding an average horse in the current market in the US is that there are already thousands of "average" horses being shipped across both borders to slaughter houses every day. Why encourage people to propagate the problem?

So many people only think about the small picture that surrounds themselves and not the bigger picture of the entire country and the full gravity of the trouble that the horse market is in. So many people think "Well, he/she's cute so 3 or 4 babies from him/her won't hurt in the grand scheme of things". The problem is that there are a million other people out there with that same mentality, so that's 3 or 4 million new 'average' babies on the ground every year that there are no homes for.

The next thing is that people jump in with "I'm going to give him/her a forever home". That's a nice sentiment, but nobody can guarantee that. What happens in 2 or 3 years when you or your spouse or your child gets very ill and the treatment sucks up all your savings? What happens if you lose your job and are working 3 minimum wage jobs just to put food on your own table? What happens when you just begin to lose interest in horses and decide to sell out? What happens to that 'average' 2-3 year old horse then?

He might get lucky and get picked up by a person who knows how to bring him along, but it's unlikely unless he is a pretty good prospect and the fact is that 'average' horses don't make good prospects for people who are serious about looking for prospects. More than likely, if he doesn't go to auction right off the bat from his original home, he will still end up there eventually.

Unless he has spectacular bloodlines, fantastic conformation, and a wonderful temperament, then he'll just blend in with the hundreds of other unstarted horses at said auction that are exactly like him. If he has unique markings or a flashy color, he might be more likely to get picked up, but the chances are, the only person interested will be the kill buyer.

So, it goes from "OMG, I must breed my mare/stud because the baybee will be sooo cutee" or "I bet I can get a $200 stud fee for this guy" to the kill pen at an auction simply because people couldn't be bothered to realistically think long term and consider what was best for the potential foal and what his chances really are.

The reason why so many people get the suggestion to geld their stallions here is because many of us are passionate about all horses, not just our own, and we are realistic enough to see the outcomes of breeding less than stellar horses. Let's face it, there really are not many members here who truly do have stellar horses, I know I don't. I have many that are nice, but none that are stellar and that's why they are all geldings. Many of us have at least one in our barn that was probably, at one point, someone else's "cutee wittle baybee". They were just fortunate enough to end up in a good home instead of a slaughter house in Mexico like so many just like them.

There is also a huge difference between high performance and high quality. Any horse with the right training and decent conformation can be a high performance horse. A high quality stud/mare will have bloodlines (and the papers to prove it) that make people stand up and pay attention. S/he will have conformation that is so near perfect that only the best can pick out the minor flaw they may have. S/he will have a temperament that anyone can get along with. S/he will also be proven at their given job. I don't necessarily mean show points, just that the horse has a job and excels at it, above and beyond the average.

Breeding should be done for the betterment of the discipline and/or breed. Breeding mediocre all-around horses in hopes of getting a mediocre all-around foal is pointless because it isn't bettering anything. You can pick up almost any scroungy, inbred cull and make it into a mediocre all-arounder with the proper training.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog:
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post #6 of 26 Old 06-21-2011, 12:17 AM
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Even stunning horses will produce mediocre babies. So why breed mediocre? Smrobs' post is fantastic.

There have been TONS of threads about this exact topic. Most have been locked, but are still searchable. I suggest reading those and letting this one die - they all end the same way: pro-breed-anything/most things vs. high-quality-only breeders.
This will be my only post here.
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post #7 of 26 Old 06-21-2011, 12:31 AM
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I'm not going to really get into this topic as it's been discussed so many times and people tend to keep the opinions they had before the topic was hashed out. Anyways...

For some reason the saying "shoot for the moon and even if you miss you'll land among the stars" comes to mind. Just because two horses are conformationally perfect, they are not guaranteed to produce an equally outstanding horse. May be far fetched but just throwing it out there. Ignore me if you want.
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post #8 of 26 Old 06-21-2011, 12:41 AM
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Well all great breeders had to start somewhere. I'm sure that MOST high end breeders didn't just wake up one morning with a stable full of world champions to start their breeding program with. They all probably started with somewhat "average" horses and as they became more knowlegable and exprienced with bloodlines and certain x's, they probably worked their way up to where they are now. Just saying.
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post #9 of 26 Old 06-21-2011, 01:26 AM
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Agreed completely with smrobs.

To crimson: not actually. Most breeders I know that are putting decent horses on the ground have gone out and bought one or two very good foundation mares and bred them to high quality, usually frozen semen, studs. From there they focus on maybe getting up to 5 foals a year and make sure they are quality and well taken care of. Then there are the other breeding programs that grab whatever mares they can find cheap, throw a stallion in with them and mass produce lame, injured, meat horses, unless they are smart enough to avoid the barbed wire and rusty machinery and get sold to a real owner and last until 6 ish before the poor breeding and conformation catch up to them in the form of arthritis.
Good breeding makes good horses. Conformation is judged for a reason. Expensive studs cost that much because they are proven at producing good quality citizens. Breed registries grade horses for a reason too.
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post #10 of 26 Old 06-21-2011, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ponyjocky View Post
the people that write that stuff just are not very in touch with reality.

there is nothing wrong with breeding if you can afford to take care of mare and foal.

not everything that reproduces needs to be perfect. this is not nazi Germany, and no NOT EVERYONE WANTS THE STEREOTYPICAL STANDARD OF AND AMAZING HORSE.

if humans were as harsh with their own breeding as we pretend to be on forums with horses, i'd bet half of your parents would be sterile and 3/4 of you wouldn't exist.

Here is my direct opinion on breeding, no matter what you plan on involuntarily impregnating with what TO HIS THEIR OWN.
I mostly lurk on here.....but really???????

This entire post made my brain want to explode.

Never come between a woman and her chocolate
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