Breeding Questions.
 
 

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Breeding Questions.

This is a discussion on Breeding Questions. within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • How to breed a colt with no mother
  • Horse breeding questions

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    09-11-2011, 07:54 AM
  #1
Yearling
Breeding Questions.

A friend/farrier has asked if he can breed his appy/QH colt with my Mum's arab cross. My Mum and I would get one foal and the farrier get another. We will talk to him about it when he does the horses hooves next which will hopefully be next weekend, since they really need trimming. We will get her vet checked to make sure she can foal but I'd just like to ask some questions on foaling, since I have never had anything to do with it.

What colour would normally come out of a black dad and palomino mum?

Would you allow it to happen?

How long does the foal need to be with it's mother/feeding?

How old do you think is too old for a mare to become a mum?

Would the breeds make a nice looking horse?

What is the chances of it going wrong?

Here is my Mum's horse:
SAM_1183.jpg

The colt:
leroye.jpg

The colt's full sister:
Apache.jpg

Sorry if I sound dumb, I am just clueless.
     
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    09-11-2011, 02:38 PM
  #2
Trained
What colour would normally come out of a black dad and palomino mum?

Offspring Color Probability

16.67% -


Smoky Black
16.67% -




Buckskin
16.67% -




Black
16.67% -




Bay
16.67% -




Palomino
16.67% -


Chestnut

This doesn't take into account the probability that you could get the Appy pattern and not knowing some things, like whether your mare carries the silver dilution gene, or whether she carries the agouti pattern, things like that I can't give you any closer probabilities for color that what I've got.

Would you allow it to happen?

I would not. The reasons I wouldn't are because there is not much market for horses right now and an unregistered one (mutt) is harder to sell than a registered foal. You're talking 2 crosses which unless you can go with a color registry are not going to produce a registerable foal with any breed registry. Is either of the proposed parents registered? If your mother's mare is registered as a half - Arabian, she can be bred back to a pure Arabian stallion for a registerable 1/2 Arabian foal.

Now if all you want is a foal that you can play with and possibly keep for its lifetime, that's a whole different consideration. I breed only for registerable, salable horses and with the economy downturn, I am breeding less and less foals each year.

If you want to allow the breeding and give the farrier his foal, I'd do it for a certain number of shoe-ings or trims and let it go at that, I would not do a foal/foal swap.

How long does the foal need to be with it's mother/feeding?
My ideal time is 6 months but will pull a foal at 4 months if it's huge and really draining the mother. You have to increase mom's feed (pretty much double or more her grain) to support the lactation and feeding the foal so it gets pretty pricey. At 4 months if the foal is eating well and just emotionally dependent on mom then I'll wean them and let them stay in a neighboring stall or paddock for emotional support until they are 6 months or older. I, personally, like to leave the mare open for the year after she has foaled, it gives her time to raise the baby and for her body to recover from the stress of the last 18 months.

How old do you think is too old for a mare to become a mum? I'm guessing you're really asking, for the first time? I wouldn't breed a maiden mare past 15 years old unless she was really healthy and sturdy and the vet agreed. If she's not maiden, just not been bred for a few years, then it's really up to what the breeding soundness exam shows. Again, your vet can probably steer you best here.


Would the breeds make a nice looking horse?

IMO, it's not a cross I'd ever be interested in.

What is the chances of it going wrong?

Arabian mares (and as a 1/2 your mare probably got all the good breeding karma) tend to be the easiest to get and keep in foal. They also have a lot fewer foaling problems than say warmbloods. I never realized how easy us Arabian breeders had it until I was talking to a friend who breeds Warmbloods. My goodness, the stuff they seem to experience yearly I haven't seen in 20 years. So, while there is always a chance something will go wrong, with the Arabian blood you have in there, I'd say your chances of everything going right are a lot better.
     
    09-11-2011, 02:43 PM
  #3
Foal
Hi not sure on the colour, its any ones guess.
Yes would definitely allow it to happen if she is healthy, they usually reccomend the foal feeds from the mare for 6 months but some people do wean the foals at 5 month.
     
    09-11-2011, 05:52 PM
  #4
Yearling
The reason it's foal for foal, is because the farrier wanted a foal out of her, and the foal my Mum and I get would be my horse once I grow out of my little welsh.

None of our horses are registered but we would not be planning to sell the foal and I don't think he is either. I think he will just break it in and use for trail rides. :)

The mare is roughly 15 but the vet will check if she still can. :)

Thankyou for your opinions!
     
    09-11-2011, 06:00 PM
  #5
Green Broke
I would not allow it to happen for multiple reasons. However I guess if you can afford to pay for 2 breedings and keep the mare in good shape aswell as the training and such that will be needed for the foal well then that's upto you. But again the cross is not something I would willingly go and search for by any means.

The chances of it going wrong could vary. Anything could happen from her not catching to something happening out in the field or so on. Breeding can be very risky especially if you are new to it so I would recommend you do LOADS of research and have multiple vets that you can call in case of an emergency.
     
    09-11-2011, 06:21 PM
  #6
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrelracingArabian    
I would not allow it to happen for multiple reasons. However I guess if you can afford to pay for 2 breedings and keep the mare in good shape aswell as the training and such that will be needed for the foal well then that's upto you. But again the cross is not something I would willingly go and search for by any means.
The farrier has offered to help with the costs, feed etc for her while in foal. Thankyou for your opinion. :)
     
    09-11-2011, 06:45 PM
  #7
Foal
So the stud is a solid appy? I am not an appaloosa person so bare with me. :) If he is appaloosa and just solid, can't he throw the appaloosa color? I am thinking that the appaloosa is a color breed right, so the foal, if spotted, could be registered Appy? I know, it's taking a chance but it might be interesting to see what you would get. A spotted palomino would kind of be fun! I say if you are planning to keep the baby and don't mind the cost of raising the foal and training, then that is your choice. :) Again, not sure how appy genetics work. In honesty, you would probably be money and time ahead to buy a replacement horse, but ultimately it's up to you. Good luck with whatever you do!
     
    09-11-2011, 07:14 PM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItzKayley    
The reason it's foal for foal, is because the farrier wanted a foal out of her, and the foal my Mum and I get would be my horse once I grow out of my little welsh.

None of our horses are registered but we would not be planning to sell the foal and I don't think he is either. I think he will just break it in and use for trail rides. :)

The mare is roughly 15 but the vet will check if she still can. :)

Thankyou for your opinions!

It's ultimately up to you and your mom because it will be your horse that you either get to keep (you like it) or get stuck with (you hate it). I personally would go looking for a well trained, suitable replacement when the time comes, there's a LOT of money at stake when you're talking breeding and raising a foal from scratch. It's why I'm such a stickler for making sure all the pedigrees are in the right place, it costs the same to breed and raise the foal and without papers it's a mutt. It can be a very well loved mutt, but if you put 3-4 thousand dollars in its care (and that's conservative) before you can even think of saddle training it, that's a big gamble. I'd rather spend the money on something I knew was exactly what I wanted.
     
    09-11-2011, 07:47 PM
  #9
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbienusa    
So the stud is a solid appy? I am not an appaloosa person so bare with me. :) If he is appaloosa and just solid, can't he throw the appaloosa color? I am thinking that the appaloosa is a color breed right, so the foal, if spotted, could be registered Appy? I know, it's taking a chance but it might be interesting to see what you would get. A spotted palomino would kind of be fun! I say if you are planning to keep the baby and don't mind the cost of raising the foal and training, then that is your choice. :) Again, not sure how appy genetics work. In honesty, you would probably be money and time ahead to buy a replacement horse, but ultimately it's up to you. Good luck with whatever you do!
Yep he's a solid appy. :) I have pictures of his Mum somewhere.
Not really usefull but here it is:
P3150656.jpg
I think he can throw it, but as I said, I know almost nothing about breeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians    
It's ultimately up to you and your mom because it will be your horse that you either get to keep (you like it) or get stuck with (you hate it). I personally would go looking for a well trained, suitable replacement when the time comes, there's a LOT of money at stake when you're talking breeding and raising a foal from scratch. It's why I'm such a stickler for making sure all the pedigrees are in the right place, it costs the same to breed and raise the foal and without papers it's a mutt. It can be a very well loved mutt, but if you put 3-4 thousand dollars in its care (and that's conservative) before you can even think of saddle training it, that's a big gamble. I'd rather spend the money on something I knew was exactly what I wanted.
Thankyou again for your advice. :)
     
    09-11-2011, 11:36 PM
  #10
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbienusa    
So the stud is a solid appy? I am not an appaloosa person so bare with me. :) If he is appaloosa and just solid, can't he throw the appaloosa color? I am thinking that the appaloosa is a color breed right, so the foal, if spotted, could be registered Appy? I know, it's taking a chance but it might be interesting to see what you would get. A spotted palomino would kind of be fun!
Appaloosa is a regular breed like any other horse, not a color breed. They just happen to usually be pretty loudly colored as they were were bred to be that way. He could be entirely able to throw a loudly colored foal. The same as Paints can appear solid colored, but still carry a pattern gene.
     

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