Breeding questions for an early foal...
 
 

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Breeding questions for an early foal...

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  • Invite the artist foals
  • Invite the artist 2014 foal

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    12-07-2012, 09:25 PM
  #1
Yearling
Breeding questions for an early foal...

Whiskey will be bred to Invite the Artist for a 2014 foal. I would like to have an early foal, as this baby will be my show prospect... I have a few local girlfriends who are helping me through this, as it will be my first home bred horse, but would like the advice of those that are on this board that have done this before as well. It is very much appreciated!

Background:
Whiskey is Mayanna Gun. She is coming 5. She was shown last year, earning 47 APHA points in 7 different events including Halter, WP, HUS, horsemanship, trail, reining, showmanship, and speed events. She is currently #5 in APHA Top Ten Open SPB (solid paint bred) and Zone 3 Champion Open SPB, with honor rolls in Showmanship and Trail. Won many high points this year. She is 15.3, straight and correct, and the nicest mare in mind and body I have ever owned. She developed sarcoids on her neck and jaw, so will no longer be able to be shown. Vet said not hereditary and she is clear to breed.

Invite the Artist is a 16 hand bay homozygous tobiano with a ROM in Western Pleasure and World Show Slot Champion in Western Pleasure. He is straight, balanced, and has a beautiful head. He is Breeders Trust, NSBA, Reichert and a few other nominations.

So - here are my questions.
I currently have her in the barn at night under lights. They come on at 0430, off at 0730. She is turned out all day, then comes in and back under lights at 1630 (4:30 pm) until 2030 (8:30 pm).

I would like to aim for a March breeding for a Feb 2014 foal - what are the risks that you that have bred have encountered with early breedings. She is a silent heat mare, which has me a little worried. She will be going to a mare care station for her insemination - they do daily teasings and can do hormone injections as needed.

Do you do a pre-breeding exam - my breeder friends says huge waste of money on a maiden mare - she is current on coggins, shots, teeth and feet and worming.

Any advice or things to prepare for - thanks in advance...
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg johnny.jpg (27.4 KB, 66 views)
     
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    12-07-2012, 09:40 PM
  #2
Started
Yay! Invite the Artist! Gina is fantastic.

I usually lurk now, but this post excited me. :)

Keeping them on the lights is good. We're putting ours under lights too.

My advice on a maiden mare is get a good repro vet and start early! We've had a couple maiden mares that took several tries, especially on the shipped semen. I would consider talking to your vet about getting her up their and watching her cycle earlier than what would be "ideal". Sounds like you've got that covered by sending her to a good place.

We usually aim our babies to be born March/April. The issue with having a January/February foal is that they are born in the coldest season. Often you will have to blanket the babies and coop them up inside so they don't freeze. It's a lot of work, haha. And frankly, I don't see a huge difference between a February yearling and a April yearling besides maybe an inch in size. But if you're planning on taking a yearling to world show (like I am), I'm positive you won't see the difference.

You may want to consider a later breeding just for convenience. Good luck!


+ Also, a friend of mine had an early baby and had to keep him inside his stall until spring because of mud and snow. By then his legs were really wonky from not getting exercise.
     
    12-07-2012, 09:50 PM
  #3
Yearling
Thanks - Oh Vair Oh - those are the things I am worried about, having a baby born too early - balanced out by if she takes a couple cycles we still want to have a baby that can be competitive - and yep, if we get a happy healthy foal we will be headed for World Show that November :)

I am totally fine with a March April baby... If she was yours, what month would you send her over? I am so happy you replied, I value your opinion very highly.

.. and you are right, Gina is on my facebook, and she is so helpful - I can't wait to see this cross...
     
    12-07-2012, 10:00 PM
  #4
Trained
You've a few things to consider. Will you be showing the foal as a weaner? If not, then I'd go with a later breeding, it's friggin' COLD doing foal watch in Feb, even when you have a camera, you still have to go out and check 'em periodically. BRRRRR! BTDT last year, I had 3 Feb foals and said never again and then promptly bought a mare in foal for a Feb foal again this year. What was I thinkin!

As a stallion owner, I will not breed a mare who has not had a clear cytology and culture, period. Most maiden mares will be clean but there's always a chance that due to a sneaky stallion or even anatomy that she won't and if she's not clean, she won't take or she'll take and abort. Either way, the mare owner ends up spending far more than she needs to and frequently the stallion gets blamed too. Sending her to the repro station early is a good idea, they can start checking her and will be ready when she is that way. She will probably take more than 1 shipment/try. That adds up quick, just be ready.

Main problem I had with 3 Feb foals was that it was so friggin' cold and nasty out last year, they were little wild childs by the time I could really work with them. One of them also had failure of immunity transfer, so he spent time in the ICU at the vets, that cost a bunch too. Regardless of the time of year, that can happen, be sure you test your foal's IgG levels between 12 & 24 hrs, you want OVER 800. I try to get as close to the 12 hr window as possible because you can treat with oral and IV solutions at that point, after 24 hrs it's all IV and that gets very expensive. You can do an IgG test at home and if it's low I haul to the vet for confirmation and treatment. If it's over 800, no worries.

Happy to answer any questions that I can for you, just ask. If I don't know, someone else probably will and I'm not shy about saying, "Ask your vet" if I don't know.
     
    12-07-2012, 10:07 PM
  #5
Started
Let's see, last year I think we took Roni and Jodi up late April and into early May? It took us two tries. Poppy was born early April and Lily was born mid April. It's really up to you, I would just avoid a due date when it is still very cold. Foaling out in April was great because there was plenty of green grass and they could be turned out all day without a problem. Especially if you have a day job, you can't always get out to take blankets on and off.

Also, the Invitation Only foals mature early very well. Our last By Appointment Only colt was May born and stood over 15 hands by November shows. I don't see a problem, only your preference and what your budget would allow.
     
    12-07-2012, 10:20 PM
  #6
Yearling
Maybe showing very late in year foals weanling year ... for sure the yearling year, longe-line and in-hand trail.

OK -so clear cytology and culture - I was leaning on the pre-breed exam, this is a standard part of that, I assume? If not I will be sure to ask - I want to do everything I can to up our chances of a uneventful breeding -

So maybe the best approach is to take her in April - that way if she goes first try, we have a March baby, but we still will have some leeway in case we need to try over a couple cycles. Colorado winters can be cold, and snowy -

I am saving, saving, saving - I know this is much more expensive that buying a baby already on the ground, but I have always wanted to breed my own show baby - and finally, at age 42, have a mare nice enough to consider breeding. I also quite like Johnny's movement and am hopeful this cross will be an all around athlete.

I look forward to seeing his first foals that are coming this spring...
     
    12-07-2012, 10:24 PM
  #7
Started
Sounds like a good plan!

We wanted to breed to him too, but we are sick and tired of shipped semen costs. We only do local now.

I think you will have a lovely cross. He has a great hock on him and your mare is lovely. :)
Ace80908 likes this.
     
    12-07-2012, 10:47 PM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace80908    
Maybe showing very late in year foals weanling year ... for sure the yearling year, longe-line and in-hand trail.

OK -so clear cytology and culture - I was leaning on the pre-breed exam, this is a standard part of that, I assume? If not I will be sure to ask - I want to do everything I can to up our chances of a uneventful breeding -

So maybe the best approach is to take her in April - that way if she goes first try, we have a March baby, but we still will have some leeway in case we need to try over a couple cycles. Colorado winters can be cold, and snowy -

I am saving, saving, saving - I know this is much more expensive that buying a baby already on the ground, but I have always wanted to breed my own show baby - and finally, at age 42, have a mare nice enough to consider breeding. I also quite like Johnny's movement and am hopeful this cross will be an all around athlete.

I look forward to seeing his first foals that are coming this spring...
Many vets will try to only do the culture and say they'll do the cytology if the culture is dirty. I MAKE them do the cytology, it's the cheapest part of the exam and it saves having to go back if you have a problem. Cytology can sometimes spot when an infection is still sub-clinical, even when the culture doesn't show anything. So, for efficiency, culture & cytology all at once. I think it would save me something like $27 if I didn't do it, but then the 2nd vet call or an extra shipment or 2 will FAR out spend what I saved by not doing it.

He's a gorgeous stallion, if I still used outside stallions, I would like to breed to him as well. I got soooo fed up with all the costs involved with shipping and AI that I bought my own stallion and only breed my mares to him now. I haven't seen an outside stallion that I liked well enough to go through the goat rope again. If I see one who gives me goosebumps, I'll buy a breeding. I've only had ONE in my whole life and I bought him.

Since you're planning on showing the weaner, I would take her in late-ish Feb, as a maiden I'll almost bet the farm it will take a minimum of 2 tries, if not 3. Never had a maiden settle via Shipped on a first try, EVER. Just my experiences, though.
oh vair oh likes this.
     
    12-07-2012, 10:59 PM
  #9
Yearling
Thanks so much for your help, Dreamcatcher and Oh Vair Oh - lots to consider and good to have the information :) I appreciate it immensely.
     
    12-07-2012, 11:00 PM
  #10
Trained
You're welcome!
     

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