Breeding a trotter to a natural pacer? - Page 3

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Breeding a trotter to a natural pacer?

This is a discussion on Breeding a trotter to a natural pacer? within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Any speed 1/2 pacer 1/2 trotter

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    05-30-2013, 12:13 AM
"""But I'm sure The Ninjawill havesomething smart to say about that, because they know everything about walkers.""""

Why, yes. WE (a single person) know everything about Walking Horses. Thanks for recognizing that. Lol. ;) Was that smart ennough for you?
No, I don't, but I do know an extensive array of people involved with the breed, from memebers of the board at TWHBEA to fellow trail riders. And I myself have been well educated on the breed and most of it's goings on. I never claimed to know everything, someone just felt obligated to KEEP ON nipping at my heels after I had attempted to appologize and change the subject.
The breeders I know, all say swingy colts are more for the performance world, as the pads and weight lends to make a loose horse walk. Of course, all breeders, or most, breed for naturally gaited foals and try hard not to get trotters or pacers. That's the goal. But IME, it has been proven that trotty colts gait easier and more naturally than pacey ones.

Rookie, I copied and pasted that, so that wasn't actually my opinion. But that was from an article in Voice Magazine, the TWHBEA mag. I honestly dunno anything about SB's, so can't say whether or not that's true about Onward.

Also, a SADDLE RACK, or single foot, and the TRUE RACK, is NOT like a RUNNING WALK. They are totally seperate gaits, with different foot fall sequences. So to breed for either, you have to do things differently. The running walk is a square gait, the rack is a lateral gait.
In the running walk, the hooves leave the ground and set down at even intervals, as they do in the walk and flat walk/dog walk. The sound is an even 1-2-3-4 beat. You can recite the phrase "let's go a-long" to the beats of the gait when riding on firm surfaces. The footfall sequence and timing are the same in this gait as they are in the ordinary walk and flat walk.
The SADDLE RACK/singlefoot (the same) can sometimmes get classified as a square gait, because, like the walk/running walk/ flat walk, it has an even footfall set-down timing and 1-2-3-4 beat.
It also, however, has a lateral hoof pick-up timing and a lateral footfall sequence, so is considered a lateral gait. This pick-up and set-down is possible because the horse takes slightly higher, and more time consuming, steps with his fronts in the saddle rack than in the truely square gaits. The saddle rack is usually a 3 foot, 2 foot support gait, but at moderate speed the support changes to a 3 foot, 2 foot, 1 foot support, because there is a moment in the stride when both fronts, but never both hinds, are clear of the ground at once. There is usually some slight overstride, but not like the run walk, and less- if any- headshake as well.

The true rack is a much faster version of the saddle rack. However it is slightly different in support and weight transfer. In the true rack there is mever a 3 foot, 2 foot support. Instead it's 1 foot, 2 foot that supports him alternately.
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    05-30-2013, 12:17 AM
And there are tons of trotting Walking Horses. I know a very prominant breeder who looks especially for torttoy mares to cross on her swingy stud to get very well gaited foals every time. A handfull have been harder to work into a gait, but they all performed a very nice running walk.
    05-30-2013, 12:17 AM
Britt, I honestly have nothing to add to this thread as I don't know a terrible lot about TWH. That being said though, I'm glad you posted here, because every time someone asks a question on here, someone, somehow will answer it, and I now know something that I didn't 5 minutes ago. Good luck with breeding your mare, whatever decision you end up making.
    05-30-2013, 12:25 AM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by TheNinja    

Honeysuga, I know the stallion the OP is breeding to, and I know his sire was a very good gaiter. Google the TWH "Last Chance", that is this guys sire. I'm not sure about his dam, though.
My thinking on this, and im no expert so correct me if im wrong, would be that the more pacers in the foals lineage(say the sire is out of two pacers and the mare is of a pacer and a trotter) the more likely the little one is so be a pacer. I would think if thre out of four grandsires were pacers the likelihood would go up, just as if say only two out of four were then the likelihood would go down. I may just be crazy too, lol!!!

Oh and Ninja, I sometimes refer to myself as "we" or "us", so don't worry, you arent the only smartypants with mpd on the forum...
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    05-30-2013, 12:30 AM
This is how this was explained to me by Nataliegh Jackson Prichard, my good friend and daughter of the famed "Nathan Jackson", owner of Champagne Watchout...... Because a running walk is a square gait, it is easier for a horse to go from a walk, flat walk, or running walk to a trot. Because those two intermediate gaits are, essentially, a WALK. And what comes after a walk? A trot. So many, including my own cremello filly, that are "trotty" will naturally be easier to square up under saddle. That's why it takes more work to get a natural "walker" to canter.
Because the pick up sequence is so different with a pace, it goes more in hand with a rack., because the legs are already moving similarly and why a pacer or racker is more able to canter easily.

I hope that makes sense...
    05-30-2013, 12:33 AM
Oops, just saw your post Honeysuga.
That is correct, at least I think so, too. But some how, years ago, it happened that a pacer crossed on a tortter created the original TWH's. So I guess the theory still stands that trot -pace creates an intermediate gait.
    05-30-2013, 12:45 AM
If you were to take the pads off of 90% of the breeds performance horses, they would all pace or trot. There are a select few that are actually naturally gaited. HONORS and the last Celebration winner, Walk Time Charlie, comes to mind. I'm speaking mostly of modern performance horses, I'm betting more than half of the old time performance horses were either naturally gaited or sored to gait.

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