Can I register him? And if so, what as? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 02:45 AM Thread Starter
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Can I register him? And if so, what as?

Okay, so was talking with the trainer at our stable and she asked me if I was going to register Aires since I want to compete with him (mostly local-level stuff, but who knows). That got me thinking...I don't even know what I could register him as, or if I can even register him.

Here's his "specs":

Sire: APHA stallion "Little Bit of Black" registration number 409,026

Dam: Percheron mare "Edelweiss Ida" registration number [CPA]F41031

So, does anyone know what, if anything, I can register him as? His breeder said he can't be registered as a Percheron because he's not pure Percheron (duh). She thinks he might be too "drafty" to register with the APHA. She suggested that he could maybe be indexed with the spotted draft association. Any ideas?

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post #2 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 05:15 AM
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APHA only registers horses with APHA, AQHA, and TB parents. Nothing else.

If he is spotted, the Pinto association will register him (they even have a section for non-pinto colored horses).

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post #3 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 05:18 AM
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Also, I'm not sure, but I think there is a Spotted Draft registry as well for 1/2 drafts.

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post #4 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 05:30 AM
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He can't be registered by a breed registry. As for the others, they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
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post #5 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 06:11 AM
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What's wrong with the Pinto Association, honestly? I own a Paint, and although he is APHA registered, I doubled registered him with the Pinto Association. This opens up more shows to me, they're a fun and encouraging crowd, and they're not as competitive as APHA.

I know nothing about the Spotted Draft Registry, but if makes an owner happy, why do you have a problem with it?

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post #6 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 06:31 AM
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I could make an association tomorrow called the "Bay horses with stars" and start giving registrations. It doesn't mean that the horse is worth more. It just means the horse is bay and has a star. Half the horses I register would probably be brown anyway.

Colour registries are all well and good, but the only registry I would ever care about is the relevant breed society. They require some sort of proof that the horse is the one on the paper, usually a service certificate or something similar, but some are swinging towards DNA typing too. They keep accurate results of the horse's lineage, and of ownership.

Colour registries take any horse that is the required colour - and don't need much in the way of proof of identity of the horse. So I could take the OP's horse, that she (for example) registered with the "Big and Boldly Marked" body. Since they don't need me to prove that I own him, and that he isn't already registered, I can re-register him in my name. No one knows that I don't own this horse then.

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
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post #7 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
I could make an association tomorrow called the "Bay horses with stars" and start giving registrations. It doesn't mean that the horse is worth more. It just means the horse is bay and has a star. Half the horses I register would probably be brown anyway.
Who said anything about it being worth more? And the OPs horse is very clearly paint. Pinto is a large organization with it's own 'Pinto Worlds' and 'Pinto Congress'. How many pinto horses have you seen aren't really pinto? Irrelevant point.

Quote:
Colour registries are all well and good, but the only registry I would ever care about is the relevant breed society. They require some sort of proof that the horse is the one on the paper, usually a service certificate or something similar, but some are swinging towards DNA typing too. They keep accurate results of the horse's lineage, and of ownership.
He doesn't have a breed, as he is a cross. DNA typing? Really? Do you realize how ridiculous and pompous you sound? The OP has a grade horse and wants showing opportunities, not for him to be registered and branded with as an Oldenburg, or for him to be worth $$$. Jeeze. Besides, you can snob on color registries as much as you like, but many warmblood registries care little about the actual breed and are more about 'type'. A good way to get a certain type of horse (sport horse) but an easy way to lose foundation breeds.

Lineage and pedigrees are pretty moot in a non-breeding gelding, anyway. No offense to the OP but I'm pretty sure he won't be winning an Olympic medal, so his pedigree is of no interest to breeders.

Quote:
Colour registries take any horse that is the required colour - and don't need much in the way of proof of identity of the horse. So I could take the OP's horse, that she (for example) registered with the "Big and Boldly Marked" body. Since they don't need me to prove that I own him, and that he isn't already registered, I can re-register him in my name. No one knows that I don't own this horse then.
Oh please. This is a stretch--there are dishonest people in EVERY breed registry; there is no way to police honesty. You should see some of the things that go on with dishonest warmblood breeders.

These horses have no 'proof' because... they can't be registered in normal registries. They're grade. How would you suggest the OP prove he's her's? A bill of sale? Anyone can forge that, and most grade horses don't even have one. So? Any bright ideas? Think the Pinto Association should require DNA typing? *laughs* Doesn't prove anything.

There really IS no way to prove who grade horses belong to. So the OP is trying to get a set of papers on her horse... that maybe, perhaps, do the same thing that my APHA papers do in the fact that they help prove he's mine? You're point is hypocritical; some of these registries have merit and are trying to prevent a problem you seem to think they cause. I agree that there are many silly and ridiculous registries (walkaloosa!), but the Pinto Association isn't one of them.

Bigger registries like Pinto open up MANY showing opportunities that the OP would not have had--not only can she go to 4H now, but she can go to all Pinto shows and now has a chance--if her horse is talented--to even take him to the Pinto World show, as they have MANY classes for all breeds. Dressage too!

Methinks thou dost complain too much.

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post #8 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 08:00 AM
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In general, local/open horse shows the horse does not require being registered. Even the upper levels like the 3-day eventing contests the horse need not be registered. Even some Olympic level horses are not registered, although they are for the most part Thoroughbreds.

Were I you I'd not stress over getting your horse registered. For all practical purposes it just isn't a necessity for showing.
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post #9 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 08:10 AM
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I agree with Candyandy.

If its for proof of ownership, I'd suggest getting him micro-chipped.
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-15-2011, 08:11 AM
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A few points.

First, the OP's horse is PINTO, not Paint. The words are not interchangeable - Paint is a breed, and has a breed registry, and breeds true to type. Pinto is any horse that displays a white pattern.

I believe that the AQHA require DNA typing to register a foal unless both dam and sire are owned by the same person. I am sure someone with more knowledge of the AQHA will be happy to verify this, but I am 99% certain on that fact. So call me "ridiculous and pompous" if you want, but I was merely describing what associations are doing these days.

Warmblood registries that "care little about the breed and are more about 'type'" are still doing the job of a breed registry - promoting the production of a horse that breeds true to type. And you say his pedigree is of no interest to breeders, and has no impact because he is a gelding, but many health issues can be traced through pedigree - what if the horse in question is HYPP H/H but the owner has no idea there is even a chance of it? ** I know this horse isn't, I am using HYPP as an example.

Yes, there are dishonest people everywhere. That is why registries are moving with the technology of our time, such as requiring DNA typing. You also need the signature of both the sire owner and dam owner to register a foal, unless you own them both, then you just need one signature.

The Pinto association may open up more shows, and if that is what the OP wants, then that is legitimate. But any other colour registry would just be a waste of money, and I am happy to stand by that statement.

There is no need to be so antsy with your replies. Stooping to insults does not hurt my feelings, and there is no need for it here.

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
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