Equine Color Genetics & breeding special colors - Page 4

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Equine Color Genetics & breeding special colors

This is a discussion on Equine Color Genetics & breeding special colors within the Horse Breeding forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        08-03-2010, 07:04 PM
    Sorry, I meant DUNALINO, not dunskin.
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        08-03-2010, 09:35 PM
    Green Broke
    Anyone wanna have a go at my girl? I'm not sure on basecoat but I assume buckskin, or chesnut, maybe sabino? Rabicano? Or roaning.. still not sure yet. She has a half bald face, and high jagged stockings on her rear legs, at some point the white splotches go so high to connect to the white spotches on her udder's. I originally thought maybe she was mixed with appaloosa, but she has no mottling so I assume something spotted? She's at least half mustang, and not sure what else is in there = )
    Dry pictures.

    Strange freckling like the palomino from the page before. So possibly palomino?

    As you can see the freckling is mainly on the base of her legs, on all 4 legs and on the base of her neck and chest

    Wet horsie

    What do you guys think??
        08-03-2010, 10:37 PM
    I'd say she's definitely sabino. Buckskin would be my first colour guess, especially because of the black on her knees & hocks. She's really pretty!
        08-04-2010, 05:04 AM
    Originally Posted by LilacsGirl    
    The interesting thing about all chestnuts with black tails is that a chestnut, technically - should not be able to display black hair AT ALL. It's bull to attribute this to the 'sooty' gene, because sooty doesn't just attack manes and tails, and leave the rest of the horse red! Obviously your mare has SOME kind of black gene ... or she couldn't display black, since chestnut is completely recessive. So where does that black tail come from, I wonder. Don't you think that's interesting?

    If the tovero is black - and I agree the head is an excellent indicator - the appearance of bay is most likely due to sun bleaching. I had a black horse who looked bay in the summer, and his tail even reddened in the late summer from bleaching out. But the head is a good indicator of black. My guy's head never bleached out either. This is called fading black, and at the moment, I think it's probably caused by the normal E gene, crossed with a normal chestnut gene (even from two black parents, unless they are homozygous -you spelled it right! - each parent probably carried a chestnut gene). However, when you cross that E black with Liver, or black chestnut, I believe THAT is what causes NON-fading black - where there is very little or no sun bleaching. I think it's USUAL for black horses to fade to brown or bay in the summer. Definitely doesn't mean he's not black.

    You have pretty horses!
    It's very normal for chestnuts to have some black in their manes/tails.

    If you're saying Ee is a fading black vs EE, you're incorrect. Many EE horses fade, including the Friesian I had (RIP)
        08-04-2010, 12:17 PM
    Originally Posted by CloudsMystique    
    Here's my unusual horse...

    Two blue eyes, a star, a huge snip, and a partial pastern. Her snip is very jagged and uneven around her muzzle. She has no white anywhere else. She tested negative for sabino.

    Her dam has a stripe/thin blaze and no leg white:

    Her sire is black without a single white hair:

    You can see photos of her ancestors here: Clouds Mystique W Missouri Fox Trotter (hover over "Reports" and click on "Photos")

    I don't see any obvious frames or splashes in there - do you? I see a few sabinos, though. (BTW - somebody screwed up and there are a few horses that don't belong there... ignore Balladier, Noor, Krack C, and Goodtimes. The rest are correct.)

    Mystique has a full-brother with the EXACT same markings as her, except his star and snip are more connected than hers. He even has the same partial pastern on the same leg. I wish I had a picture of him.

    This is her other full sibling: Princess Aida W., foxtrotter for sale in Florida

    None of her 100+ half-siblings have blue eyes that I know of (and I've done extensive research on the subject).

    I also have a palomino who I think might be champagne. He has light eyes and is completely covered in freckles except for his muzzle and around his eyes. Even there, the skin looks greyish instead of black. I've seen some proven champagnes who have so many freckles around their muzzle and eyes that they look black.

    His sire is bay and his dam has a palomino base coat, although she grayed out so it's possible nobody noticed she was champagne until it was too late.

    This is what the rest of his body looks like (when wet):

    I'm going to go ahead and test him for champagne when I have some extra cash laying around : ]

    I would say Mystique has splash. That would cause the eyes and the big snip in the shape of a rain drop. Splash cause heavy face white on the muzzle that dwindles smaller as it goes farther up the nose.
        08-04-2010, 02:25 PM
    WOAH!!! That's the kind of stuff I was hoping to get! Whoopie that's great!
    I'm going to say sooty buckskin paint with possible sabino gene ... anybody care to expand ??? This is going to be FUN! Thanks for submitting this one - she's wonderful!
        08-04-2010, 02:37 PM
    Yes, it's VERY normal for chestnuts to have black manes and tails. But genetically, how is it possible. What we think we know about Agouti and the Extension factor does not explain WHY it happens. Ee means the horse HAS NO BLACK gene. It can not have a black mane and tail - but it does, all the time.

    I agree - and no, I am NOT saying it's caused by EE. I'm saying it MAY be caused by whatever causes black chestnut - we don't really know what causes black chestnut, but it doesn't appear to be caused by E - because black chestnuts are supposed to be ee. Yet they are almost completely black. There must be something else that causes black that we haven't found yet. That's what I'm saying.
        08-04-2010, 02:58 PM
    Green Broke
    Hehe yeah she's a toughie! Let me know if you need more pictures or angles or anythings, I pretty much have every possible angle, as i've been trying to figure out her color for a loooong time now. Buckskin would definitely explain the white bits on her mane and tail known as "frosting", and her mane and tail isn't exactly black but it's a deep steel grey under all the red looking hair I also edited pics darker to show exactly how her spots and splotching really is.
        08-04-2010, 03:12 PM
    ^^ You should test her.. for everything! Lol
        08-04-2010, 03:22 PM
    Green Broke
    I totally would! But every spare bit of money I have laying around goes towards helping my parents pay for feed, or replacing my own tack, or buying school supplies and school clothes lol I would also need a good idea on what exactly to test her for lol

    black chestnut, black palomino, equine color genetics, pearl gene, silver gene

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