Equine Color Genetics & breeding special colors - Page 5 - The Horse Forum

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post #41 of 56 Old 08-04-2010, 03:30 PM
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Aw that's too bad. Mysteries are fun though ;)

There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing. ~ Will Rogers
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post #42 of 56 Old 08-04-2010, 03:59 PM
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Oh! I love genetics!


Loki here is registered as a 'Sorrel Roan and White/Sabino' which is... incorrect! He's actually a true SABINO Roan, meaning he's not a TRUE roan.

In the winter he's solid brown, with his white markings. No 'roan' in sight


Loki:


Sire, he has the strangest band going around all of his markings:


Dam is a minimally marked Bay Sabino. She has a blaze, milk chin, and ragged socks. Some very minimal 'roaning' in her coat.

Siblings:


He also has a minimal Black Tobiano sister, and a Black Roan Sabino brother. He was a real cuddle bug as well.


I have better pics here somewhere, I just don't have the time to upload them at the moment!

Loki doesn't have very fancy papers. His Great-Great Grandfathers on the sires side are Zane Grey and Missouri Traveler E. On the dam's side, the only one I recognize his Red Rawhide. No idea what his Grandparents looked like, I can't seem to find anything on them.

Wait! I'll fix it....
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post #43 of 56 Old 08-06-2010, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Loki is lovely!

[QUOTE=twogeldings;709886]Oh! I love genetics!


Loki here is registered as a 'Sorrel Roan and White/Sabino' which is... incorrect! He's actually a true SABINO Roan, meaning he's not a TRUE roan.

In the winter he's solid brown, with his white markings. No 'roan' in sight

Wow. Thanks for sharing those. Is it Sabino that causes the white mane & tail? It's very pretty. So, what does it mean when you say he is TRUE sabino, or TRUE roan?
Are they mutually exclusive - I mean, they can't be TRUE for one, and also be TRUE for the other? Is one dominant over the other? I mean ... they're both white pattern genes, right? I don't know a lot about white pattern genes, and it's fun learning!

I would be SOOO grateful to see a picture of your Loki in his brown winter coat. I am a particular fan of browns. So ... he seems much lighter in summer coat, so is that caused by sunlight dilution, or something else? Do you know?
Lilacs

What? A great horse can ABSOLUTELY ... also be a wonderful color!
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post #44 of 56 Old 08-06-2010, 12:38 PM
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I believe what she means is that Sabino causes white flecking, or "roaning", throughout the coat that is often mistaken for true Roan, even though the horse is not carrying the Roan gene. You CAN have a horse that carries both genes, but her horse only carries the Sabino gene. They are both a mutation of the same gene, called the KIT gene. This is also the same gene that causes Dominant White and Tobiano (but not Rabicano, Splash, or Frame).
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post #45 of 56 Old 08-06-2010, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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TRUE sabino

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixotic View Post
I believe what she means is that Sabino causes white flecking, or "roaning", throughout the coat that is often mistaken for true Roan, even though the horse is not carrying the Roan gene. You CAN have a horse that carries both genes, but her horse only carries the Sabino gene. They are both a mutation of the same gene, called the KIT gene. This is also the same gene that causes Dominant White and Tobiano (but not Rabicano, Splash, or Frame).
Thanks, Quixotic, for explaining that. So I take it, if it's possible the horse can carry both genes - that they're not found at the same locus - even tho they are both mutations of the same gene? That's amazing. Does that mean there's a Roan locus - and a Sabino locus; rather than a KIT locus? And the same with Rabicano, Splash and Frame - all different locii? I wonder how many more we still haven't discovered! White pattern genetics are a whole new world for me.

I wonder if Pearl and Palomino are located at the same locus. Some folks think they are; which would mean a Pearl Palomino would have to get one of the genes from each parent. Fascinating stuff. Thanks again -
Lilacs.

What? A great horse can ABSOLUTELY ... also be a wonderful color!
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post #46 of 56 Old 08-06-2010, 11:03 PM
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Peal is a variation of creme, & creme causes palomino, so yes, they are related. Pearl will only express itself if the horse is either homozygous for the gene or carrying another creme gene - it won't show up if there's a pearl gene paired with a non-creme gene.

Rabicano, Splash, & Frame are all their own separate genes.

Like with all other genes, a horse can get 1 KIT gene from mom & 1 from dad. However, I know inheritance with this is a bit tricky. I can't remember which locii tend to stick together, so I really can't give you much information on that. But I do know that, for example, you will never ever see a roan homozygous tobiano, because that would mean the horse had 3 different KIT genes, which is impossible.

This is a really informative article that explains Sabino 1 & all the different variations of Dominant White.
http://duncentralstation.com/PDF/KIT...ons-Castle.pdf
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post #47 of 56 Old 08-07-2010, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
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Hi and thanks for that. It's very helpful - I haven't read the article yet, but will get onto that in a little while.

Yes, they say Pearl only expresses itself in the presence of creme or another Pearl gene. However, although pearl doesn't DILUTE except in those circumstances, there is now evidence that in its single form, it can give the shine - regardless of the presence of creme. Here is Balitor - a tested single Pearl carrier. Cool, eh?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Balitor Pearl.jpg (39.3 KB, 176 views)

What? A great horse can ABSOLUTELY ... also be a wonderful color!
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post #48 of 56 Old 08-07-2010, 01:05 PM
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[quote=LilacsGirl;711341]
Quote:
Originally Posted by twogeldings View Post
Oh! I love genetics!


Loki here is registered as a 'Sorrel Roan and White/Sabino' which is... incorrect! He's actually a true SABINO Roan, meaning he's not a TRUE roan.

In the winter he's solid brown, with his white markings. No 'roan' in sight

Wow. Thanks for sharing those. Is it Sabino that causes the white mane & tail? It's very pretty. So, what does it mean when you say he is TRUE sabino, or TRUE roan?
Are they mutually exclusive - I mean, they can't be TRUE for one, and also be TRUE for the other? Is one dominant over the other? I mean ... they're both white pattern genes, right? I don't know a lot about white pattern genes, and it's fun learning!

I would be SOOO grateful to see a picture of your Loki in his brown winter coat. I am a particular fan of browns. So ... he seems much lighter in summer coat, so is that caused by sunlight dilution, or something else? Do you know?
Lilacs

Right side, not the greatest picture ever. I don't usually photograph him in the winter xD


Left side mid-lunge


Quote:
Originally Posted by LilacsGirl View Post
Hi and thanks for that. It's very helpful - I haven't read the article yet, but will get onto that in a little while.

Yes, they say Pearl only expresses itself in the presence of creme or another Pearl gene. However, although pearl doesn't DILUTE except in those circumstances, there is now evidence that in its single form, it can give the shine - regardless of the presence of creme. Here is Balitor - a tested single Pearl carrier. Cool, eh?
Oh I LOVE the Pearl gene! I had a rabbit doe that carried one copy of Pearl and she just glowed She was solid white with a tiny blue bit on the nose and her coat was a beautiful translucent metallic. Pearl in rabbits manifests itself extraordinarily similar to horses when it comes to shine.



See that sort of strange, metallic, translucences of the coat?


Gah! I just adore it My doe unfortunately passed before I could get any offspring from her, but I've been looking for another pearl ever since.

Wait! I'll fix it....
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post #49 of 56 Old 08-07-2010, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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[quote=twogeldings;712389]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilacsGirl View Post


Oh I LOVE the Pearl gene! I had a rabbit doe that carried one copy of Pearl and she just glowed She was solid white with a tiny blue bit on the nose and her coat was a beautiful translucent metallic. Pearl in rabbits manifests itself extraordinarily similar to horses when it comes to shine.



See that sort of strange, metallic, translucences of the coat?


Gah! I just adore it My doe unfortunately passed before I could get any offspring from her, but I've been looking for another pearl ever since.
Oh, hey - and you know, I think there are a LOT more single pearl horses out there that are not tested. I have a palomino colt that simmers impossibly! The cool thing about Balitor is that the shine is RED not gold. I wonder if that's what's going on with the Akhal Teke ...? food for thought!!

Thanks for these - He looks like a great lovely teddy bear in the winter and (shame on you!) you should take winter pix of him ... he's a cutie!! ;D

What? A great horse can ABSOLUTELY ... also be a wonderful color!
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post #50 of 56 Old 08-12-2010, 01:57 PM
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Guess I'll add my unusual colored horse... Classic Silver (silver and champagne on black) appy mare




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black chestnut , black palomino , equine color genetics , pearl gene , silver gene

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